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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2005 : 11:19:21 [Permalink]
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Dear friend sts60
Incorrect. I am not your friend.
your calculations don't interest.
Your lack of interest in the truth, when it is placed in front of you and your nose rubbed in it, is not my problem.
The truth is that Cassini could travel directly towards Saturn at highest velocity.
Not in a straight line, because the gravitational attraction of the Sun prevents any freely moving object - Earth, spacecraft, Saturn itself - from moving in a straight line. Any grade-school physics student could tell you this, and we've shown you the exact amount of this effect. Your refusal to learn this simple fact keeps you in the dark. But that's not my problem either.
The truth is that if you steer the probe near Venus its velocity doesn't increase.
Wrong. It's orbital speed relative to the Sun increases, which is exactly why the maneuver is done (was done twice for Cassini).
You said: "Kilograms are units of mass, not force"
To evaluate a force you can consider it like a weight, dear Professor
1. Kilograms are not units of weight. They are units of mass.
2. I am not a professor. I am a practicing engineer, and I get paid to understand these principles. But that's not required to understand the concepts; everybody else here understands them too. It's not our fault you can't understand them; we've tried. But, like a good little troll, you keep your fingers stuck firmly in your ears and just repeat yourself.
But that, too, is not my problem. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 11:24:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
Show here a drawing with vectors, please.
I think Ricky addressed this quite well.
You've ignored the same orbital velocity that you have accused NASA of ignoring only you did it where it counts, at Venus. It isn't so important with Earth (at launch, it is far more important on the last swingby in the VVE path) as the craft starts with the orbital velocity of the Earth.
Now lets say it slowly together..... Gravitation. Venus moves.
This is an important factor. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 11:25:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
quote:
Hasn't NASA made any drawing about these craps?
YES
This is a NASA site that explains these craps!!
Read it - I dare you....
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/grav/primer.html
furshur, you're kidding, right? You actually expect the troll to acknowledge an explicit example?
That's what I like about you - your charming naivete...  |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 11:31:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
quote:
Hasn't NASA made any drawing about these craps?
YES
This is a NASA site that explains these craps!!
Read it - I dare you....
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/grav/primer.html
Holy shit, furshur! Even a specialist in the humanities can see how this stuff works! Impressive, and pretty hard to confute, I'd say! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 11:31:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by sts60
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
quote:
Hasn't NASA made any drawing about these craps?
YES
This is a NASA site that explains these craps!!
Read it - I dare you....
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/grav/primer.html
furshur, you're kidding, right? You actually expect the troll to acknowledge an explicit example?
That's what I like about you - your charming naivete...
I think we should suggest this link next.
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare.swf
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 11:47:36 [Permalink]
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We keep asking bigbrain to provide evidence, and in fact he continues to do so. Unfortunately the evidence he provides is of his intellectual capacity and not of his claims regarding space flight. Considering the evidence, I take issue, to a minor extent, with those referring to bigbrain as an idiot. Where it does seem a fitting description according to common usage as shown in this list of synonyms from the thesaurus...
idiot: ass, blockhead, boob, booby, cretin, dimwit, donkey, dork, dumb ox, dumbbell, dunce, dunderhead, fool, halfwit, ignoramus, imbecile, jackass, jerk, kook, meathead, mental defective, moron, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, pinhead, pointy head, simpleton, stupid, tomfool, twit, yo-yo
... I prefer to rely on more refined definitions such as those provided by a dictionary. While I generally agree with what sts60 said about knowing 3 year olds with better language usage and comprehension skills than bigbrain, I would take those particular 3 year olds to be at least a bit above average. I have posted below some dictionary definitions of idiot, imbecile, and moron. Given the immense body of evidence provided by bigbrain himself, I am more inclined to accept him as an imbecile or maybe a moron. The term "idiot" does seem a little harsh to me, but please feel free to look over these definitions and make your own judgment.
id·i·ot n. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers.
im·be·cile n. A person of moderate to severe mental retardation having a mental age of from three to seven years and generally being capable of some degree of communication and performance of simple tasks under supervision.
mo·ron n. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education.
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:32:17 [Permalink]
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| Wait a moment, I must play with my dog. |
"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:39:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I have seen this crap
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/grav/primer.html
NASA's buffoons don't take (as usually) Jupiter gravity into account and think that Jupiter act like a magic magnet.
In those drawings the vectors of Jupiter's gravity force are not shown.
Yes it does. Somebody correct me if I'm mistaken, but the first diagram shows exactly that, and the second shows that PLUS the added velocity provided by Jupiters velocity sun-relative. If Jupiter was standing absolutely still, the probe would speed up as it approached, then slow down as it went away, resulting in no gain (other than changing direction). Adding in the velocity component of Jupiter, you get the additonal speed gain.
I am no expert in this - did I read that correctly?
quote:
The planet's own motion is a key. A gravity assist with Jupiter involves not a stationary planet as considered above, but a planet with enormous angular momentum as it revolves around the Sun. In the diagram at right, Jupiter's motion along its solar orbit has been illustrated with a vector colored red (simplified, of course: Jupiter revolves along an arc, not a straight line. Imagine the Sun situated below the bottom of the diagram). The spacecraft acquires this Sun-relative vector, or a significant portion of it, during its interaction with Jupiter.
You can see how the red vector is added to VIN and VOUT. The resulting vector shows how the spacecraft's velocity, relative to the Sun, takes on a nice boost from Jupiter. Notice how rotation of the vector from VIN to VOUT (the bending of the spacecraft's path by the planet's gravity) helps increase the result. This trajectory bending is the other key.
The spacecraft is a physical mass, so it has its own gravitation. That's how the spacecraft can tug on Jupiter and actually decrease the planet's orbital momentum by a tiny amount. In the exchange, the spacecraft acquires momentum from Jupiter — a significant amount, compared to the momentum the spacecraft already had.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/11/2005 12:42:55 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:43:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain
I have seen this crap
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/grav/primer.html
NASA's buffoons don't take (as usually) Jupiter gravity into account and think that Jupiter act like a magic magnet.
In those drawings the vectors of Jupiter's gravity force are not shown.
NASA's buffoons show the probe that travels perpendicularly to Jupiter direction but ...
but ...
but in this drawing
http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=h_cassini_trajectory_02.gif&cap=The
the probe travels parallelly to Venus and that magic manoeuver can't be done
Holy god-- you are a [bleep!] moron! The drawing you linked is on a completely different scale than the other. And besides, the "magic manuever" can, of course, still be done, regardless of the angle. As long as you don't hit the fucking planet in question then the physics work. (Hell, even if you do hit the planet, the physics work, it just won't help you out much.)
You're obviously a troll or too stupid to understand this. Perhaps you should consider playing with your dog on a more regular (or even a permanent) basis and leave us alone.
And by the way, where in Italy are you from? |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 08/11/2005 12:44:16 |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:46:16 [Permalink]
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http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/grav/primer.html
NASA's buffoons don't take (as usually) Jupiter gravity into account and think that Jupiter act like a magic magnet.
Absolutely, inarguably wrong, again. Underlined is an explicit example in the JPL page of NASA taking Jupiter's gravity into account: "the accelerating force of Jupiter's gravitation has made a significant change in the direction of the spacecraft's velocity, but not in its magnitude"
In those drawings the vectors of Jupiter's gravity force are not shown.
No need, because anybody who knows the slightest amount of physics understands that gravitational attraction is radially inward, towards the planet.
http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=h_cassini_trajectory_02.gif#8745;=The
the probe travels parallelly to Venus and that magic manoeuver can't be done
1. Any probe travels "parallely" to a planet which it flies by. Otherwise it would hit the planet. ("Parallely" is not a word.)
2. You are comparing a representative close-up diagram of a generic Jupiter GA maneuver with a vastly smaller-scale 2D trajectory diagram, which is not a valid comparison.
3. If you are trying to say that a gravity assist maneuver doesn't work if a spacecraft approaches with its velocity vector roughly aligned with that of the planet - except that you don't understand any of the concepts and thus can't be expected to use the right words, even if you could speak English, which you can't - then once again you have it exactly backward. I'd say 180 degrees backward, except you are so deficient you think 360 degrees means backward, so that would only confuse you further. To increase heliocentric speed, that is the best way to do it.
That's three really foolish mistakes in one partial sentence. Fortunately, that doesn't really hurt your average accuracy. Also fortunate for you is the fact it's impossible to have negative accuracy. |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:48:58 [Permalink]
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| I think all the carpeting is worn off the scratching post. Darn. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:51:30 [Permalink]
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Big Buffoon,
Both drawings indicate very clearly the force and effects of gravity. How come you have failed to answer two questions posed to you:
1) where did all the money go? No weaseling out here. If you know they took the money, you should have evidence if where it is.
2) Did NASA also orchestrate all their failures as well?
You're arrogance is completely without foundation. It is one thing to be stupid. But you are too stupid to realise how stupid you are
Please please please, apply to NASA. This is just too funny |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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bigbrain
BANNED
409 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 12:58:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
"... You're obviously a troll or too stupid to understand this. Perhaps you should consider playing with your dog on a more regular(or even a permanent) basis and leave us alone ..."
Instead of this impossible crap manoeuver, NASA's buffoons could enter in orbit around Venus and increase the probe's velocity at 79,000 miles per hour (velocity of Venus RELATIVE TO THE SUN)
79,000 miles per hour (velocity of Venus) + 36,000 miles per hour (velocity of Cassini) = 115 miles per hour
Cassini would have been able to go to Saturn at 115 miles per hour
FANTASTIC, I SHOULD WORK FOR NASA
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"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2005 : 13:00:42 [Permalink]
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What I find especially amusing is that bigbrain/unknown/pierre.../wildbill is now running in circles so fast that he's now contradicted his own assertion (made on apollohoax) that gravity doesn't affect spacecraft because their "mass is the smallest".
It's like using a laser pointer to get a cat spinning around so fast it trips over its own feet. Good cheap entertainment. |
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