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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 08/18/2005 : 18:43:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
When I see a beautiful woman I get thoughts and ideas that you would consider sinful (especially since I already have a girlfriend), Robb. But I don't need a God or fear of forfeiting my chance for an afterlife to restrain myself. I believe am a moral person, even though I don't believe in God.
True!
Morale is when you do the right thing because it is right and not just because you believe that you will get punished if you do otherwise.
Most sociopaths behave while under supervision.
You and Dr. Mabuse assume I follow God because I am afraid not going to heaven.
I meant (God) or (fear of not going to heaven).
Either way you seem to need a rationalization to do what's right. You do it because you believe that God loves you.
I do good, and restrain myself from doing evil because I think it's the right thing to do. I suppose it's because I've been brought up by parents who taught me that I should always try to do the right thing.
There are plenty of Christians that believe that all morals come from God, and that if you don't believe in Jesus Christ, then you are by definition amoral. I hope you are not a Christian of that particular persuation. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 22:35:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
...God has killed people. The people he killed in the bible were not going to repent and were wicked.
Yah, that was pretty evil and wicked of Lot's wife to look back.quote:
God acted in righteous judgement. Like it or not, the wages of sin is death.
Sometimes, then again, sometimes not. Death is doled out in a pretty capricious and arbitrary way, don't you think?
So if death is for sinners, and, we're all sinners, we all die, what's the reason not to sin? If you are trying to say God kills sinners prematurely, then the religious folks should all be living longer and those of us who are atheists should die young. But you know it doesn't happen that way.
Face it Robb, you can only explain it by saying one can't figure it out. No matter what happens, you just say there is some mysterious reason you will find out later. Sorry, but that is just plain silly. You could just as easily sacrifice a virgin to the volcano Gods and say the same thing. God wants you to because you prayed and the idea popped in your head. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 22:37:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
If you pray and study the scriptures as a whole, God will give you discernment on what to do in any situation.
I think you've backed yourself into a logic trap from which you cannot escape and remain rational.
Free will or not?
My point exactly! |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2005 : 22:42:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
We should be getting pretty close to the "God is outside of human understanding" argument.
Ya think? |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 05:43:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by the_ignored
If that were the case, then we wouldn't have so many christian denominations, and so many christians arguing about stuff like whether there's a real eternal hell or not
The fact that there are so many denominations is truly a sin against God. The problem, I think, is that when we try to discern what God is telling us we change it based on what we want. I am guilty of this as well. Alot of times what God wants does not make sense to us. The bible says that your relationship with God takes time. I do not beleive the same things that I beleived when I first became a christian. This may not be an adequate answer, but I never said I had all the answers. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 05:46:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
So you believe in pre-destination?
I beleive that God knows the choices we will make. This does not mean that he forces us to make them. (Yes, I know about pharoes heart.) |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 05:50:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by the_ignored
Even when those he killed have not sinned themselves? Example: David and Bathsheba's first love child? The parents fooled around, and as punishment god kills the kid.
Why do you assume that children do not sin? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:06:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
We should be getting pretty close to the "God is outside of human understanding" argument.
Scince I became a christian I know that I am saved. This does not mean that I know everything about God. To get to know god takes a lifetime and the willingness to have him show himself to you. I think you can't understand God completely and is outside human understanding (there it is), this is where faith comes in. Not blind faith, but faith based on knowing gods character. I trust my wife in all situations because I know her character. If I saw her at a resteraunt with another man holding hands, I would not assume the worst because I know her character, same with God. I give him the benefit of the doubt in situations I don't understand. You probably don't like this answer, but it is what I beleive. God says that he continues to reveal himself to us through all eternity so we will never totally understand him ever. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:20:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
It takes a god to overcome the desires you have regarding attractive women?!? Wow-- those must be pretty powerful desires. Because I have some desires about attractive women all the time. Yet me, in all my godlessness, still don't act on them. Funny how things work...
I did not act on them before I became a christian as well. I never mentioned that I had desired to rape or molest women as you suggest. But I do have a desire to look at pretty women that are not my wife. Most men do. Jesus taught that this is a sin. This is what I was talking about. For those men that do have desires to molest women Jesus can help them overcome their impulses as well. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:21:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
Why do you assume that children do not sin?
According to your religion, they do and they will burn in hell unless they accept jesus. Too bad for all those children who die before they can. There is no scripture in the bible that says a child gets a free pass to heaven if they die before they say those magic words...Original Sin do take a bite, don't she? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 08/19/2005 06:28:27 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:27:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
Scince I became a christian I know that I am saved. This does not mean that I know everything about God. To get to know god takes a lifetime and the willingness to have him show himself to you. I think you can't understand God completely and is outside human understanding (there it is), this is where faith comes in. Not blind faith, but faith based on knowing gods character. I trust my wife in all situations because I know her character. If I saw her at a resteraunt with another man holding hands, I would not assume the worst because I know her character, same with God. I give him the benefit of the doubt in situations I don't understand. You probably don't like this answer, but it is what I beleive. God says that he continues to reveal himself to us through all eternity so we will never totally understand him ever.
That is the very definition of blind faith. If a situation comes along you don't understand, then you automatically trust your god and no more questioning is requried. God-of-the-Gaps. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:34:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
So if death is for sinners, and, we're all sinners, we all die, what's the reason not to sin? If you are trying to say God kills sinners prematurely, then the religious folks should all be living longer and those of us who are atheists should die young. But you know it doesn't happen that way.
I think you know that this is not what I am saying.
quote:
Face it Robb, you can only explain it by saying one can't figure it out. No matter what happens, you just say there is some mysterious reason you will find out later. Sorry, but that is just plain silly. You could just as easily sacrifice a virgin to the volcano Gods and say the same thing. God wants you to because you prayed and the idea popped in your head.
True, you need to seek God for yourself, you cannot take my word for it. If you do you will find out why the volcanoe gods have no power. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:36:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by Robb
Scince I became a christian I know that I am saved. This does not mean that I know everything about God. To get to know god takes a lifetime and the willingness to have him show himself to you. I think you can't understand God completely and is outside human understanding (there it is), this is where faith comes in. Not blind faith, but faith based on knowing gods character. I trust my wife in all situations because I know her character. If I saw her at a resteraunt with another man holding hands, I would not assume the worst because I know her character, same with God. I give him the benefit of the doubt in situations I don't understand. You probably don't like this answer, but it is what I beleive. God says that he continues to reveal himself to us through all eternity so we will never totally understand him ever.
That is the very definition of blind faith. If a situation comes along you don't understand, then you automatically trust your god and no more questioning is requried. God-of-the-Gaps.
I don't even think you read my post. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:44:17 [Permalink]
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| No, I read it. I just cut out all the goobledy-gook and summarized it for easy reading :-) |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2005 : 06:55:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by Robb
Why do you assume that children do not sin?
According to your religion, they do and they will burn in hell unless they accept jesus. Too bad for all those children who die before they can. There is no scripture in the bible that says a child gets a free pass to heaven if they die before they say those magic words...Original Sin do take a bite, don't she?
I disagree. There are some. This is but one. Jeramiah 31:15-17 quote:
A voice was heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted for her children, because they are no more.
Thus says the Lord:
Refrain your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says the Lord, and they shall come back from the land of the enemy. There is hope in your future, says the Lord, that your children shall come back to their own border"
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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