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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2005 : 20:17:00
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Is the mighty USA learning the same hard lesson that Rome and England learnt before it?
It has stretched it's rescources (and influence) to all corners of the globe, and now it appears that a smear imposed by nature on the south east corner of the country, will bring the elastic to breaking point.
Is this the turning point?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/04/opinion/04brooks.html?th&emc=th
Edited to add link.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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Edited by - Dry_vby on 09/04/2005 16:01:18
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 22:05:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Is this the turning point?
Personally I hope it is a turning point that moves us away from current path we are on.
I think there will be severe political repercussions, adverse ones, for the republican party. Well, there will be if we can find a couple of democrats with a fucking spine and the will to stand up.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 11:36:12 [Permalink]
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| It's easy to lose sight of what a great country we really have after 6 years of the Bush admin. |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 17:56:43 [Permalink]
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As an outsider I have been a great admirer of American culture for a while, but really, what is happening now is just not right.
Sure Bush is not a great example of the evolution of democracy, but hell, like it or not he is your choice.
People get the goverments they deserve.
A-merry-KKKa has been labouring under the weight if its massive hubris for some time now and is collapsing under the strain .
The people can do something about this, so it's up to you people.
Do something about it.
Wake up and take an interest in who actually gets to run this show.
I don't think the world can take the consequences of one more election result like the last. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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trishran
Skeptic Friend
USA
196 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 21:27:35 [Permalink]
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Dry Vry: I don't think you can blame this on the American electorate. In recent NY Times articles on line, there is strong evidence that Gore and Kerry actually won. In Ohio in 2004, thousands of election irregularities all went in favor of Bush, with is statistically highly unlikely, and this occurred after the 2000 Putsch, in which Republicans were bussed to Florida to indtimidate people who were hand-counting votes.
Then there are the gerrymandered districts designed to give disproportinate representation to less populated, but republican connected communities. There is also the fact that, without campaign finance reform, including giving equal budgets to all candidates from a common pool, the elections will continue to belong to the rich. ANd no matter how sympathetic a righ person is toward poor people, they will never be an familiar with the details that matter to the working class.
The American people, voting in good faith, did not deserve this. But if this doesn't wake them up, they will start to deserve it. |
trish |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 21:55:13 [Permalink]
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I understand the way the election was stolen, however, surely if enough people get out and vote against Herr Bush, the sheer numbers will be to large for them to fiddle.
The one redeeming feature about this whole mess is that the noise might be loud enough to wake the sleeping masses into some kind of drastic reaction.
Like i said, the next election is make or break.
Redemption is not out of reach. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 23:45:50 [Permalink]
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The empire is not crumbling, it is just a little frayed around the edges. Hopefully the electorate will see that the Republican ideals of smaller government and more money for the wealthy is a step (or many steps) in the wrong direction.
Hopefully the mid terms in 2006 will signal the start of a new progressiveness that will benefit more of the population and once again, global hatred of America and her policies will subside.
Man, everyone I know pines for the days of Clinton (complete with his foibles)......to see him speak compared to Doofus is so damn refreshing.
It's up to the Dems to be bold and not be watered down Republicans, otherwise change will never happen.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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soda_farl
New Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2005 : 14:52:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by gezzam
The empire is not crumbling, it is just a little frayed around the edges. Hopefully the electorate will see that the Republican ideals of smaller government and more money for the wealthy is a step (or many steps) in the wrong direction.
Hopefully the mid terms in 2006 will signal the start of a new progressiveness that will benefit more of the population and once again, global hatred of America and her policies will subside.
Man, everyone I know pines for the days of Clinton (complete with his foibles)......to see him speak compared to Doofus is so damn refreshing.
It's up to the Dems to be bold and not be watered down Republicans, otherwise change will never happen.
Do you think there is any real difference between the parties? There may be in theory, but in practice they are all in bed together. A third viable alternative to the Democratics and Republicans is needed to shake things up. |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 08:49:52 [Permalink]
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The Republicans stole the election for Dubya's first term and then won his second by emotional blackmail. Fear of what would happen if the easing of our aggressive stance were seen by the rest of the world as weakness. Fear on a local level that if you stood out against a war-time president you would be viewed as unpatriotic. Unhappily most Americans don't have the time or the inclination to research the facts. They see the debates and the commercials and vote from their guts instead of their heads. In this case their guts were being twisted by worry and anger.
My own sister voted for Bush. I called her a couple of nights ago and asked her how she felt about her choice now in the light of his handling of the recent disaster. She defended him vehemently giving her firm belief that it was not in his power to do more. It sounded so familiar to me but it took awhile for me to figure out why.
Bush has turned America into a battered woman. Half of us are trying to pull for killing him in his sleep, while the other half are saying "But he really loves us!"
As to whether the Democrats are different, yes and no. They are just as driven to chase for the cash and power needed to keep the party campaigns going, but they are also dependent on the votes of the more liberal elements of the population to keep the numbers shored up so they try not to do anything to piss them off. The Republicans however are more dependent on the religious right and that is a can of worms I am sure has been opened ad naseum in other threads. |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 09:01:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
LizW:
Bush has turned America into a battered woman. Half of us are trying to pull for killing him in his sleep, while the other half are saying "But he really loves us!"
Wow! What an insight! I will be using that.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 09:54:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
America ... a battered woman
It's a very striking image, I can just see her, the torch gone out and no longer held high, the book in shreds but clasped to her chest like a shield... a look of bewilderment and suppressed fear- the crown askew...
EDIT: I can just imagine Bush too, holding a half-empty bottle saying:
"Baby, why you always gotta make me hit you?" |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
| Edited by - Subjectmatter on 09/11/2005 09:56:38 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 12:55:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by soda_farl
Do you think there is any real difference between the parties? There may be in theory, but in practice they are all in bed together. A third viable alternative to the Democratics and Republicans is needed to shake things up.
While there are lots of things these politicians have in common, NO ONE HAS BEEN AS BAD AS THESE GUYS.
What makes you think a 3rd party will be that different?
I agree there is a lot of corruption at the top and a little at the bottom for that matter (check out Tacoma and Spokane, WA for example). But it all pales in comparison to the current administration. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 14:29:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LizW
Bush has turned America into a battered woman. Half of us are trying to pull for killing him in his sleep, while the other half are saying "But he really loves us!"
It's a very disturbing image you paint, but it fits so well, I'll be having nightmares about it.
It is all crystal clear now, with Subjectmatter's visualisation.
Edit: LizW, may I use the quote above in my signature in some other forum? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/11/2005 14:32:05 |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 15:15:08 [Permalink]
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For a third party candidate to get elected they would have to be famous, charismatic, rich, trusted and beyond reproach, as Fred Rogers has passed away I can't think of anyone who fits the bill.
The two party system is so entrenched that many of the people in our country barely even pay attention to what the people on the ballot have to say, they just vote for "their" party. I find it especially frustrating because we live in Virginia and my vote seems to be worth a little less than spit because I live in a red state.
Dr. Mabuse, of course you can, I'm flattered.
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You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 17:31:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LizW
I find it especially frustrating because we live in Virginia and my vote seems to be worth a little less than spit because I live in a red state.
I too live in the Red Zone (Alabama specifically), therefore I know that my vote counts for naught. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 17:40:12 [Permalink]
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| Those red state votes for blue may yet count in the next federal election. Bush's numbers are pretty low and the coat tails may cost some of those house members their seats in close elections. |
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