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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2005 : 12:28:36
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Many of us have differing views of what the U.S. should do regarding the Iraq situation. I am interested in finding out what your ideas are regarding pulling out or staying or some variation thereof and why. A protracted argument against the war or for it is NOT what this thread is about...simply where to go from here and your reasons why.
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Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 13:06:16 [Permalink]
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Stop building permanent military bases immediately and announce it publicly.
Investigate the corruption and end it.
Hire Iraqis to rebuild their country and fire Haliburton immediately. The Iraqis are unemployed while Haliburton steals rebuilding funds.
Focus on food, water, electricity, schools, housing and less on security where ever possible.
Get reporters out of the "green zone" for real reporting, quit faking it. If you have to I'm sure Arab reporters are perfectly capable.
And so on.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 13:08:15 [Permalink]
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Hi Doomar; long time, no see, and welcome back!
A good question....
Bro, I really don't know. On the one hand, we broke it, thus we are morally bound fix it. But on the other, as long as there is an American boot on Iraqi soil, the fight will never end.
Either way, I think that civil war is inevitable, it it hasn't started already. It looks to me that no matter what we do, it's wrong.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:43:53 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by filthy
Hi Doomar; long time, no see, and welcome back!
hey there, filthy! THanks. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:45:10 [Permalink]
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i]Originally posted by Ricky[/i]
Submit to the U.N. and ask them for guidance. Tell them that we made a mistake, and now we would like help in dealing with the current situation. Have them decide what we should do, as long as it is feasible.
Good idea! |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:46:22 [Permalink]
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GET RID OF BUSH, for a great place to start.
The UN ?
You are joking, aren't you.
After what they did (or didn't do) in Rwanda and the Balkans, what good would this toothless paper tiger be.
What? A-merry-KKKa should just wash the blood of their hands like Pontius Pilate and let some other corrupt orginisation have a go at cleaning up their mess?
Not bloody likely, mate!!!!! |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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| Edited by - Dry_vby on 09/04/2005 20:51:15 |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:46:52 [Permalink]
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i]Originally posted by beskeptigal[/i]
Stop building permanent military bases immediately and announce it publicly.
Investigate the corruption and end it.
Hire Iraqis to rebuild their country and fire Haliburton immediately. The Iraqis are unemployed while Haliburton steals rebuilding funds.
Focus on food, water, electricity, schools, housing and less on security where ever possible.
Get reporters out of the "green zone" for real reporting, quit faking it. If you have to I'm sure Arab reporters are perfectly capable.
And so on.
Sounds reasonable to me. Not sure insurgents will stop firing or bombing, though. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:47:57 [Permalink]
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i]Originally posted by Dry_vby[/i]
GET RID OF BUSH, for a great place to start.
Okay, but what about Iraq? |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 20:54:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
i]Originally posted by Dry_vby[/i]
GET RID OF BUSH, for a great place to start.
Okay, but what about Iraq?
OK, let me put it this way:
1. Get rid of Bush.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 21:28:18 [Permalink]
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Tough question, we all know it was a mistake to begin with, but as Powell said, "you break it, you own it"
I think that the Iraq's would be a little more accepting of the blue helmets of the UN to help with the reconstruction, however I think the Sunni's will do everything in their power to cause turmoil for years to come.
It is unfortunate that there is so much ethnic division in the country, this is the real problem. The American occupation just acerbates it.
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Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 21:32:27 [Permalink]
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The A-merry-KKKan invasion ripped the whole knapsack apart and sent shit flying in all directions.
Freedom? Ha!
At least Madman Insane had control of all those factions, not like the insane madman that's "in control" now.
Control is power, but the best control is self control. |
"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2005 : 23:22:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Not sure insurgents will stop firing or bombing, though.
I'm not sure, but I'm willing to bet that since the terrorists were renamed 'insurgents', more Iraqis have died from "insurgent" attacks than all other nationalities present in Iraq, combined. (I'm sure that someone will correct me on that if the data is available, though.)
If that is the case, it's clear that the "insurgency" isn't directed at the United States at all, and instead (as filthy suggested) what we've got is a civil war with pro-Saddam and pro-religious-rule forces on one side, and the current Iraqi government (with the U.S. in a supporting role) on the other. And a secular, democratic government will probably never be able to defeat the insurgency.
With the above in mind, it seems the the U.S. presense is actually a destabilizing factor that will ensure the current rate of loss-of-life will continue for a long time to come. So, if the U.S. interest is to minimize the death and destruction, our troops' number-one priority should simply be to defensively guard the rebuilding projects.
In other words, withdraw from all activities which aren't focused upon fixing what we broke. No policing activities, no defending the "green zone," no protection of Iraqi officials. We take hundreds or even thousands of troops, create a wide perimeter around an electrical substation, and let the workers work until it's fixed. Then do it again. And again. And again. Until every substation, school, hospital, etc. is back in working order, regardless of who is in power.
After all, if the Iraqi people can't take care of their own governmental problems, no amount of help from our soldiers is going to create a stable nation. Their very presence does the opposite, in fact.
And as soon as we get this process started, we try Bush for his war crime of getting us in there in the first place, as a good-faith gesture to the Iraqi people and the insurgents both that we mean what we say. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 04:04:50 [Permalink]
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| The continuing U.S. attack on the people of Iraq is a crime, and we need to treat it as a crime. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 11:50:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
i]Originally posted by beskeptigal[/i]
Stop building permanent military bases immediately and announce it publicly.
Investigate the corruption and end it.
Hire Iraqis to rebuild their country and fire Haliburton immediately. The Iraqis are unemployed while Haliburton steals rebuilding funds.
Focus on food, water, electricity, schools, housing and less on security where ever possible.
Get reporters out of the "green zone" for real reporting, quit faking it. If you have to I'm sure Arab reporters are perfectly capable.
And so on.
Sounds reasonable to me. Not sure insurgents will stop firing or bombing, though.
Well we know they aren't going to quit in the current situation. So where's the logic in "staying the course"?
The Iraqis know from history where the current plan is going. It's only the American public that is poorly informed. We could shift the plan and the hearts of the people in that part of the world with reasonable well constructed actions along the theme I suggested. But the folks in power in the White House now are in denial. They believe their plan will work. They can't accept the fact it won't. We have to change tactics or nothing will change but it isn't going to happen until the public educates itself and puts pressure on the government to see the light. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2005 : 12:21:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
... Tell them that we made a mistake, and now we would like help in dealing with the current situation. ...
That would be a refreshing change.
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Well we know they aren't going to quit in the current situation. So where's the logic in "staying the course"?
Too much like admitting a mistake. Especially, considering who George Bush sought advice from, The Higher Father. http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/10267
How could it be wrong?
edited: format |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 09/05/2005 12:22:47 |
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