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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2005 : 17:33:08
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quote:
The Pentagon has drawn up a new strategy, built on the 2002 "Bush doctrine" of pre-emptive military strikes, that would allow the United States to make first use of nuclear weapons to thwart an attack using weapons of mass destruction against the country.
Under the scheme, developed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff but yet to be ratified by Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary, commanders would be able to request permission from the President to use nuclear weapons in a variety of scenarios. According to The Washington Post, one scenario is of an enemy that is using, or "is about to use", WMD against US military forces or the civilian population. Another is where nuclear weapons could be used against biological weapons that an enemy was close to using, and which could only be safely destroyed by nuclear weapons and their after-effects.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article311903.ece
It's coming....
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2005 : 17:44:52 [Permalink]
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| I don't think this is new. Maybe just the formality is new. These jerks are stupid enough to put it on paper. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 22:09:04 [Permalink]
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| God help us all... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 22:39:03 [Permalink]
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This kills me...
The US openly violates non-proliferation by funding new nuclear weapon research (the bunker buster nuke, used to have a link to an article, but it doesn't seem to be working). And now our government is openly planning for a chance to pre-emptively use nukes...
Open request to the rest of the world:
If the US nukes anyone, please wait a week or so before nuking us back. Give me time to move to New Zealand.
With the OBVIOUS inability of our intel services (US, Brits, the rest of Europe, etc) to determine if Iraq actually had any WMD... This seems beyond insane.
Its like they are actively working themselves up to using a nuke on somebody.
I hope that the republicans here get their asses soundly kicked in the 2006 congressional elections. I know I will never cast a vote for anyone except a democrat, even if I hate the person. You know, there USED to be reasonable moderates in this country. They have all been drowned by the lunatics at the edges. Republicans far far more so than the dems.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2005 : 22:40:16 [Permalink]
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Apparently, according to the doctorine of free will , God can only help us when we're dead.
The psychotic morons who wrote this "strategy" are trying to get us there as soon and in as large numbers as possible.
Nukes to stop WMD's?
Nukes are WMD's.
So does that mean if someone thinks that the US is about to launch a nuclear attack, they can pre-empt them and launch one first which the US will retaliate against before it happens.....?
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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| Edited by - Dry_vby on 09/11/2005 22:46:12 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 06:36:15 [Permalink]
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Time to start arming our nation for a retaliation. Sweden did have a nuclear weapons program in the fifties. Time to dust off the shelves in the lab, because I sure as hell will want to be able to retaliate on America if the American Government sets off a nuke.
No offence meant for Skeptic Friends, but I'm feeling more and more insecure and afraid of what your government might do, so... arming ourselves to the teeth will ensure mutual destruction once again seems to be the only way to make the lunatics see reason. A doomsday device might be a good idea after all.
I'm starting to wish for a reunion of the former communistic dictatorship of the USSR with strong leadership and the power (nuclear and otherwise) to balance the insane government of USA. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 09:03:10 [Permalink]
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No, Dr. Mabuse, I don't suggest you guys start arming yourselves now. That would force us to rain destruction down upon you and two or three of your neighbors. Just to make sure you hadn't corrupted them.
By the way, my geography is not very good, how close are you to France? |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 09:04:30 [Permalink]
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| I agree...if you start arming the US would have to pre-emptively destroy you. And it would be your fault. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 09:25:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Time to start arming our nation for a retaliation. Sweden did have a nuclear weapons program in the fifties. Time to dust off the shelves in the lab, because I sure as hell will want to be able to retaliate on America if the American Government sets off a nuke.
No offence meant for Skeptic Friends, but I'm feeling more and more insecure and afraid of what your government might do, so... arming ourselves to the teeth will ensure mutual destruction once again seems to be the only way to make the lunatics see reason. A doomsday device might be a good idea after all.
I'm starting to wish for a reunion of the former communistic dictatorship of the USSR with strong leadership and the power (nuclear and otherwise) to balance the insane government of USA.
Oh look. The truth is we are not going to drop a nuke on anyone. This current administration is so battered and unpopular right now they wouldn't dare do that. This is nothing but dick waving. (And of course those dicks are attached to even bigger dicks.)
The press is finally awake. The Bush administration is now a lame duck presidency and is increasingly a target for the press. I do believe the tide may have turned. Lets hope so. As of today his approval rating is at 38%. He couldn't win for dog catcher…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 10:06:52 [Permalink]
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| I just dont know, with these fundie bastards in office, you never know if one of them might have the idea that they could trigger the rapture/second coming with their friends the WMDs. How many people are eagerly awaiting the 'End of the World?' |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 10:13:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LizW
No, Dr. Mabuse, I don't suggest you guys start arming yourselves now. That would force us to rain destruction down upon you and two or three of your neighbors. Just to make sure you hadn't corrupted them.
By the way, my geography is not very good, how close are you to France?
Too close I'm afraid. Based on my experience of having a french neighbour in boarding school, french people are noisy. wherever they are tested, the echoes of nuclear weapons always seem to reach me in the end... |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 22:02:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
No offence meant for Skeptic Friends, but I'm feeling more and more insecure and afraid of what your government might do, so... arming ourselves to the teeth will ensure mutual destruction once again seems to be the only way to make the lunatics see reason.
Know thy enemy.
The people in charge are whacked, yes. Dangerously insane, yes. But religious fundamentalists won't respond how you think they will respond to the old MAD (mutually assured destruction) policy.
Let me quote the current imbecile-in-chief: "Bring it on!"
They won't be deterred by MAD.
I don't know what the best way to respond to them is... hopefully our press will stay on the fucking job after the mess with Katrina blows over (no pun intended) and keep riding these guys. Our press is largely to blame for so much of our current situation. They lost their balls sometime in the 80's, let Clinton be impeached in the 90's, and let Bush pre-emptively invade Iraq on bad intel this decade.
Somehow they lost the idea that they are supposed to report events and also point out errors of fact in statements made by public officials. FOX does so well in the ratings with their (I can't call it news with a straight face) news network that the real media (most major outlets are owned by for-profit corporations) was forced to adopt some of the same style.
Its apparently acceptable for reporters to just repeat what people say now and not bother to illustrate the errors of fact and outright lies. Fair and balanced = repeat the talking points and say nothing else.
Reporting should be about calling an asshole an asshole, not letting somebody call it a processed food disposal unit and then just repeating what is said.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 22:34:58 [Permalink]
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| Er... I'm pretty sure Sweden is darn low on the USA's "hit list". Save your tax money. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/12/2005 22:35:49 |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 22:40:07 [Permalink]
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| Maybe we are now, but eventually some american tourist will fly over Sweden and spot all the nuclear weapons facilities... |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2005 : 22:55:03 [Permalink]
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Was this news just released? I haven't had time to look at it. If it was just released you can bet it was timed to be obscured by Katrina.
But this policy is just not new. The neocons have been putting money into tactical field nukes for years. My guess is there are big contracts to be had out there in military industrial complex land and there was this little formality of no first use that was getting in the way of a budget approval. The jerks have always been stupid enough to do it. If they wanted to such as in Iraq you can bet Bush would have been fire first claim you had permission later. My money's on this just being a we want to give certain friends their contract rewards, election contribution time is near.
Not that that makes it any less horrifying mind you. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/12/2005 22:56:20 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 12:59:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
But this policy is just not new. The neocons have been putting money into tactical field nukes for years.
I don't care if USA spends half its federal budget developing bunker-buster-nukes. It's USA's pre-emptive strike policy that is really scaring. It's that policy that has to end. During the cold was, USA armed because they were afraid USSR could possibly initiate a first strike.
Today we have enough proof that USA goes to war with pre-emptive intent, even if there is no real threat. In Iraq, those weapons were conventional, but once the small tactical nukes are ready to deploy, I can very well imagine USA using them. Directly after 9/11 I would have placed a bet on a 50-50% chance of USA using a nuke in Afghanistan.
Right now we need another superpower with balls to balance the imperialism of the USA. Too bad China is too much a wuss to say enough is enough.
quote:
My money's on this just being a we want to give certain friends their contract rewards, election contribution time is near.
Not that that makes it any less horrifying mind you.
The more horrifying is that it may well buy yet another election. USA has failed terribly as a democracy. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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