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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 09/15/2005 : 08:27:33 [Permalink]
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Our government should do whatever is in the best interests of the people of the United States; afterall, isn't that the primary purpose of a representative style government? That said, it should be first acknowledged that the initial invasion was not in our best interests. However, we have invaded and the next question is, what course of action is in the best interests of the people of the United States? (Note: it'd be nice if the government used a litmus test like that in all of their policy decisions -- clearly that's far from the minds of the policy makers of the Bush Administration -- (and of much of congress on each side of the aisle for that matter))
So what is in the best interests of the US citizenry?
Imediate Withdrawal? Considering it would lead to wider civil war and further destabalization of the whole region and all that goes with that - from terrorist training camps to hostile fundie governments to a collapse in oil supply (critical to our economic welfare whether you like it or not) and a further thrashing of US standing in the world... not sure this is in our best interests.
Status Quo - probably not. Better plans, broader international intervention, and better leadership are needed at minimum.
Apocalyptic Genocidal War? Hmmmmm....what if we withdrew our troops and used neutron bombs to sterilize every nation in the middle-east and any other hot-bed of anti-US fundamentalism? The radioactive fallout would be relatively minor. The fighting and the terrorist threat would end. The oil supply would only be temporarily interupted. Not sure what the long term political implications would be. On the one hand, we'd be reviled. On the other, who would want to mess with us? Even nuclear armed nations would tread lightly, I think. I oppose such action on moral grounds, but if you're looking at this in completely objective terms . . . . hmmmm.
Political Reversal - I think a dramatic move to the Left is what the US people really need. Dump the current 'leadership,' reverse their anti-humanist domestic and foreign policies, re-engage the international community and work with the UN to bring broad international support into Iraq and clean up the mess, and come up with a long term anti-fossil fuel energy policy. Perhaps we could turn Bush and his cadre of fools over to the International Criminal Court...(yeah right). |
-Chaloobi
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 13:38:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Immediate Withdrawal? Considering it would lead to wider civil war and further destabalization of the whole region and all that goes with that - from terrorist training camps to hostile fundie governments to a collapse in oil supply (critical to our economic welfare whether you like it or not) and a further thrashing of US standing in the world... not sure this is in our best interests.
So we're back to the original goal of the invasion of Iraq: To secure the oil for American consumption...  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 16:13:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
Immediate Withdrawal? Considering it would lead to wider civil war and further destabalization of the whole region and all that goes with that - from terrorist training camps to hostile fundie governments to a collapse in oil supply (critical to our economic welfare whether you like it or not) and a further thrashing of US standing in the world... not sure this is in our best interests.
So we're back to the original goal of the invasion of Iraq: To secure the oil for American consumption...
Of course. Money, power, resources...that's what it's all about in global geo-politics. And what our government does in the global arena very often affects us at home. If you think securing a cheap oil supply is not a legitimate action of the government, you're kidding yourself. The real issue is how they go about it - war, diplomacy, economic domination, fair trade, etc. And further, what they are doing to secure alternatives to the volatile mid-east resources is critical to a robust energy infrastructure here at home. This is the heart of the scandal behind that absurd 'energy bill' the government shit out a few weeks back. It is in the best interests of the people of the US not to depend on volatile forgeign governments for the resource at the heart of modern civilization. It's obscene that the government is doing nothing about this - very much in the (short term) interests of the oil industry but NOT in the interests of Americans in general. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/15/2005 16:18:11 |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 16:19:22 [Permalink]
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When you talk about ".....our best interests....." who are ".....our....."
The world has been much more destabalised since the Iraq invasion, and as far as I know, the cost of running this "holy" war is costing more than the oil will ever recoup.
It's funny how A-merry-KKKa only wants to invade countries that don't have McDonalds.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 16:37:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby
It's funny how A-merry-KKKa only wants to invade countries that don't have McDonalds.
What's with this KKK shit? Are you here to make any valid comments about U.S. policy or just blindly bash an entire nation? This immature name calling says more about you than anything about the reality of the situation.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend
Australia
249 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 16:40:53 [Permalink]
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So, it's easier to attack me than to address the issues.
Typical.
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"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."
Bob Dylan
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 16:53:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby
So, it's easier to attack me than to address the issues.
Typical.
What!? What kind of fucked up persecution complex do you have? Pointing out that your vicious, ugly, and cheap attacks are devoid of actual substance does not qualify as an "attack" upon you.
And what issues have you raised? You've just spouted simplistic accusations about evil America. Yes, very salient points. You can begin making legitimate comments whenever you're ready. Or not and remain as bigoted as those you condemn.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 18:59:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Apocalyptic Genocidal War? Hmmmmm....what if we withdrew our troops and used neutron bombs to sterilize every nation in the middle-east and any other hot-bed of anti-US fundamentalism? The radioactive fallout would be relatively minor. The fighting and the terrorist threat would end. The oil supply would only be temporarily interupted. Not sure what the long term political implications would be. On the one hand, we'd be reviled. On the other, who would want to mess with us? Even nuclear armed nations would tread lightly, I think. I oppose such action on moral grounds, but if you're looking at this in completely objective terms . . . . hmmmm.
What about the complete disruption of trade that would result as other countries cut off trade with us and sever diplomatic ties?
There is no "objective" result that can in any way end as favorable for the US by using WMDs.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 05:11:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby
When you talk about ".....our best interests....." who are ".....our....."
The world has been much more destabalised since the Iraq invasion, and as far as I know, the cost of running this "holy" war is costing more than the oil will ever recoup.
It's funny how A-merry-KKKa only wants to invade countries that don't have McDonalds.
By 'our' interests, I mean the collected interests of the citizens of the US. I thought that was very clear in my post. Of course that's very broad - we're a diverse people, but there are very specific and common things everyone needs. Chief among those is keeping civilization here on its feet. I think invading Iraq was diametrically opposed to the interests of the people of the US. It was either lunacy or idiocy or some combination of both. However, the question of invade or not invade is water under the bridge now. We're stuck with it and beyond putting the dumbasses that got us in there on trial, there is nothing to be done about it. Today's question becomes what do we do with Iraq now? What action is in the interests of the citizens of this nation? |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/16/2005 05:18:28 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 05:15:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Apocalyptic Genocidal War? Hmmmmm....what if we withdrew our troops and used neutron bombs to sterilize every nation in the middle-east and any other hot-bed of anti-US fundamentalism? The radioactive fallout would be relatively minor. The fighting and the terrorist threat would end. The oil supply would only be temporarily interupted. Not sure what the long term political implications would be. On the one hand, we'd be reviled. On the other, who would want to mess with us? Even nuclear armed nations would tread lightly, I think. I oppose such action on moral grounds, but if you're looking at this in completely objective terms . . . . hmmmm.
What about the complete disruption of trade that would result as other countries cut off trade with us and sever diplomatic ties?
There is no "objective" result that can in any way end as favorable for the US by using WMDs.
Yes, the global economy would collapse, wouldn't it? We'd find ourselves completely isolated.... But then we wouldn't have to worry about manufacturing and tech jobs going overseas, would we? Ah, that whole thing and this too are just tongue in cheek. I mainly posted that option to suggest round-aboutly that the 'best' solution might be something nobody's ever considered or would dare take seriously. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/16/2005 05:15:53 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 05:56:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby
So, it's easier to attack me than to address the issues.
Typical.
He does have a good point though.
Lay off with the KKK stuff (you know what KKK stands for and how it is not related to the warmongering corporate American imperialism that is currently its government). While racism are still rooted in parts of the American society, it is no longer dominant.
Edit: "How do we sleep while our Beds Are Burning?" |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/16/2005 06:00:54 |
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