|
|
|
|
gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2001 : 09:55:34
|
Just stumbled across the website.... fantastic job guys.
I reside on the other side of the Pacific in Australia and whilst browsing through various topics, I was wondering if there are actually any schools in the US that tech the theory of Creationism.....If so, this depresses me that these theories (with no real substance) can be forced down the throats of children.
I do not know of one school (even religous ones) in Australia that do not teach the Darwinian Evolution theory and I believe that if there was one it would cause public outcry.
Again, keep up the great work debunking thos myths.
|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2001 : 12:57:57 [Permalink]
|
The latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer has a rather ambitious article about this very topic. Keeping in mind that I don't have the magazine in front of me, a meta-analysis purportedly shows that, among 10 or so of the commonly mentioned bible belt states, between 20 and 50 percent of high school biology teachers actively teach creationism. A different meta-analysis shows even higher percentages that 'fail to adequately address evolution' or some such wording. I haven't sought any of the individual studies myself, but I have to say, the whole thing seems hastily done and I am skeptical of the conclusions at this point. The new issue hasn't appeared on http://www.csicop.org yet.
There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn't my fault, I swear to god! - Jake Blues |
 |
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2001 : 00:22:09 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Just stumbled across the website.... fantastic job guys.
I reside on the other side of the Pacific in Australia and whilst browsing through various topics, I was wondering if there are actually any schools in the US that tech the theory of Creationism.....If so, this depresses me that these theories (with no real substance) can be forced down the throats of children.
I do not know of one school (even religous ones) in Australia that do not teach the Darwinian Evolution theory and I believe that if there was one it would cause public outcry.
Again, keep up the great work debunking thos myths.
Glad you like the site, I personally know the ones who put it together and they are great people.
Ok, enough of that!
I just started back to school to try to complete some sort of degree, maybe, after many, many years away. I'm now taking a philosophy class. It is at a Jr. college but one of the readings in the text book is from a guy named Duane Gish(there's a post about him on this site although I haven't read it yet). Years ago when I took philosophy he wasn't even published. So a lot of the studies are new to me now. He has a Creationist museum of sorts, here in California. I went there with some of the people who created this site, a few years ago. It's really a bunch of nonsense.
When I took a test about him in class, I put a comment on my paper about how a person like that could possibly have any creditability. The teacher more or less agreed. I guess it's free speech and learning another point of view, as ridiculous as it may be.
As far as the lower grades, grammar school, Jr. high and high school, from what I understand now, if they teach one theroy they have to teach others, so at least it won't just be one sided....I hope. But it probably depends on the teacher, and what part of the country, who knows how someone in the bible belt will handle the information.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
|
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2001 : 00:26:58 [Permalink]
|
quote:
The latest issue of Skeptical Inquirer has a rather ambitious article about this very topic. Keeping in mind that I don't have the magazine in front of me, a meta-analysis purportedly shows that, among 10 or so of the commonly mentioned bible belt states, between 20 and 50 percent of high school biology teachers actively teach creationism. A different meta-analysis shows even higher percentages that 'fail to adequately address evolution' or some such wording. I haven't sought any of the individual studies myself, but I have to say, the whole thing seems hastily done and I am skeptical of the conclusions at this point. The new issue hasn't appeared on http://www.csicop.org yet.
Oh, whoops, should have read your post 1st. Well, that's depressing information but not surprizing.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
|
|
|
gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2001 : 05:14:26 [Permalink]
|
quote:
As far as the lower grades, grammar school, Jr. high and high school, from what I understand now, if they teach one theroy they have to teach others, so at least it won't just be one sided....I hope. But it probably depends on the teacher, and what part of the country, who knows how someone in the bible belt will handle the information.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art.
Yeah, I remember doing religious education at school (I actually got 14 detentions in a row in Grade 7 for refusing to recite the Lords Prayer - I can't really remember quite what I was standing for there). I come from a family with a strong maths/science background so I must say I was a bit skeptical about religion, even at that age science made alot more sense than the inane, nonsensical ramblings of the Reverend. As I've got older and seen more of the pain and suffering caused by different religions I really wanted nothing to do with it. But after reading a lot of the stuff here and at the ICR, I'm astounded that people can actually believe the drivel that comes out of their mouths. It actually angers me that kids are being taught this, It's almost a form of child abuse. Maybe a bit strong, but I thats what I think.
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin |
|
|
|
Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2001 : 14:44:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Yeah, I remember doing religious education at school (I actually got 14 detentions in a row in Grade 7 for refusing to recite the Lords Prayer - I can't really remember quite what I was standing for there). I come from a family with a strong maths/science background so I must say I was a bit skeptical about religion, even at that age science made alot more sense than the inane, nonsensical ramblings of the Reverend. As I've got older and seen more of the pain and suffering caused by different religions I really wanted nothing to do with it. But after reading a lot of the stuff here and at the ICR, I'm astounded that people can actually believe the drivel that comes out of their mouths. It actually angers me that kids are being taught this, It's almost a form of child abuse. Maybe a bit strong, but I thats what I think.
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin
No not strong at all. I attended parochial school for several years, but the catholic church even 20+ years ago taught evolution in their classrooms. Bible study was definitely separate from science. The thought that we are allowing another generation to be raised with these silly non-sensical beliefs and calling it science is astonishing and troubling in the extreme. So much for the scientific future if this continues...
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
|
|
|
Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2001 : 22:14:53 [Permalink]
|
quote:
I attended parochial school for several years, but the catholic church even 20+ years ago taught evolution in their classrooms. Bible study was definitely separate from science. The thought that we are allowing another generation to be raised with these silly non-sensical beliefs and calling it science is astonishing and troubling in the extreme. So much for the scientific future if this continues...
All I can say is, Thank the powers that be, I went to school in California. At the time the state was known for it's achievements in education, now we are near last on the chart. But then the whole USA has fallen behind from what I see today.
When I was in grammar school the closest thing to religion I remember was a xmas festival where the kids would have a program of music for the parents in the auditorium. We sang a mixture of chanachu(sp.)and xmas songs, the area was 99% jewish. I thought of it as a fun time, no one, in school, ever told us that it was sacred or anything. I wonder how different my life would have been if I lived in the south.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
|
|
|
bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 14:35:17 [Permalink]
|
It is time we should all take a much harder line against fundamentalism because that is largely what the seeds of terrorism is sown from. George should of said you are either with us or you are with not only the terrorists, but the fundamentalists, which should also apply as equally to Christian fundamentalism as it does to Islamic fundamentalism. You of course really do not resort to bullits and bombs, just simply withholding funding from any school that preaches the so called literal truth of any holy book like the Bible or Koran etc or preach creationism. Creationism is the height of rock bottom ignorance, so you cannot make them any more ignorant by withholding funding. And do not allow any student that has been educated at such fundamentalist school from entering any state tertiary institution, or government department. This should be a message that should be advertised all around the world. Defeating fundamentalism will go a long way to defeating terrorism
  
bjones
Remember: When you die your philosophy dies with you
|
|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 15:05:36 [Permalink]
|
quote:
It is time we should all take a much harder line against fundamentalism because that is largely what the seeds of terrorism is sown from. George should of said you are either with us or you are with not only the terrorists, but the fundamentalists, which should also apply as equally to Christian fundamentalism as it does to Islamic fundamentalism. You of course really do not resort to bullits and bombs, just simply withholding funding from any school that preaches the so called literal truth of any holy book like the Bible or Koran etc or preach creationism. Creationism is the height of rock bottom ignorance, so you cannot make them any more ignorant by withholding funding. And do not allow any student that has been educated at such fundamentalist school from entering any state tertiary institution, or government department. This should be a message that should be advertised all around the world. Defeating fundamentalism will go a long way to defeating terrorism
I don't know what the situation is down under, but we'll sooner see Al Sharpton elected president than to have that type of anti-creationist fiscal manipulation instituted. Besides, the creationist indoctrination at the secondary level takes place in private schools, which are largely exempt from government assistance in the first place. Anyway, what would scholastically stranding these kids do? I can envision a situation in which funamentalists self-segregate, send their kids to privately-funded Christian universities which would totally eliminate whatever accurate scientific instruction they receive now in public universities, and then we have real-life social warfare between the skeptics and the credulous, who have rarely come into contact with each other, rather than merely the rhetoric and uneasiness that we have now.
There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn't my fault, I swear to god! - Jake Blues |
|
|
|
ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 15:54:51 [Permalink]
|
Sounds horrible PhD!
Of course, if we just wait around and do nothing, eventually the Credulous, will simply outnumber us, and we'll really have a Fight on our hands, and heads, and backs, and ... well, you get the idea.
BTW, don't wait for good ol' Georgie, to do anything. He IS a Fundamentalist! Just look at his stance, on Abortion.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away. |
|
|
|
PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 19:24:12 [Permalink]
|
Oh, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying there's nothing to be done, far from it. I just don't think legislation is the way to do it. I, for one, don't want to hear any more fundamentalist cries of 'persecution' and 'discrimination.' No, education is the only way, slowly but surely...
There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn't my fault, I swear to god! - Jake Blues |
|
|
|
bjones
Skeptic Friend
Australia
82 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2001 : 22:03:18 [Permalink]
|
The most dangerous course of action to take is to allow Christian fundamentalists to claim that the Bible is the asolute word of their "God" but the Koran is not.
quote:
Oh, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying there's nothing to be done, far from it. I just don't think legislation is the way to do it. I, for one, don't want to hear any more fundamentalist cries of 'persecution' and 'discrimination.' No, education is the only way, slowly but surely...
There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn't my fault, I swear to god! - Jake Blues
bjones
Remember: When you die your philosophy dies with you
|
|
|
|
Dog_Ed
Skeptic Friend
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2001 : 02:10:20 [Permalink]
|
It's all quite a tangled knot, imho. Listening to a fundamentalist Christian I work with applauding the idea of bombing of Afghanistan during Ramadan--positively gloating over it--underscored for me that some of these fundies see honoring other religions as basically wrong: Islam and Buddhism and Shinto are false teachings that go against the word of God! To honor them smacks of moral degeneracy.
As far as I have seen, my son (age 12) hasn't been taught cretinism (sp?) at school. And since our whole family has a rather rationalist, scientific sort of ambience, he's not much attracted to the religious (except in the case of one particular little blonde, but that's, well, it's not exactly a spiritual yearning...)
Thank goodness for you guys. Sometimes the rampant looniness and illogical fanaticism loose in the world seems like krap piled on filth, and not a dung-beetle in sight.
"Even Einstein put his foot in it sometimes" |
|
|
|
James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2001 : 21:15:13 [Permalink]
|
quote:
...cretinism (sp?)
You got it right. 
quote:
(except in the case of one particular little blonde, but that's, well, it's not exactly a spiritual yearning...)
It's a yearning, but it most definitely is not a spiritual one. 
"Hey Butt-Head check this book out! There's a talking snake, a naked chick, then some guy puts a leaf on his SCHLONG!!" [Beavis and Butt-Head Do America]
Edited by - James on 11/09/2001 21:16:14 |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
