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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2005 : 13:00:28
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I would like to get some different views on celebrating Religious holidays to support traditions and feel connected to the community at large.
We celebrate Christmas. We have a tree, and we decorate and put up lights. I have a Playmobile advent calendar, a Little People nativity, and an angel for the top of the tree.
The thing is, we don't do these things as a type of worship. Dave is an atheist, I am personally non-commital (but I have enough of my Babtist upbringing left to believe I am going to hell for it), and our son is too young to be interested either way. I taught him the story of the nativity because it connects him to both of our families past and present, and because it is a nice story.
So the question on my mind is: Can you celebrate religious holidays strictly for the tradition and the connections that it nurtures, or do you think it perpetuates negative aspects of Christian Majority behavior?
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You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2005 : 13:59:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LizW
I would like to get some different views on celebrating Religious holidays to support traditions and feel connected to the community at large.
We celebrate Christmas. We have a tree, and we decorate and put up lights. I have a Playmobile advent calendar, a Little People nativity, and an angel for the top of the tree.
The thing is, we don't do these things as a type of worship. Dave is an atheist, I am personally non-commital (but I have enough of my Babtist upbringing left to believe I am going to hell for it), and our son is too young to be interested either way. I taught him the story of the nativity because it connects him to both of our families past and present, and because it is a nice story.
So the question on my mind is: Can you celebrate religious holidays strictly for the tradition and the connections that it nurtures, or do you think it perpetuates negative aspects of Christian Majority behavior?
I don't think it perpetuates anything, really. It exposes your child to the kinds of stuff your extended families are coming from. As Christmas, the celebration that you are engaged in, I have a feeling is less about religion than about family togetherness and rampant consumerism. Maybe some negativity, but not from Christianity. Like the myth of Santa Claus, it's a warm fuzzy that I believe your child will come away with.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 14:06:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
So the question on my mind is: Can you celebrate religious holidays strictly for the tradition and the connections that it nurtures, or do you think it perpetuates negative aspects of Christian Majority behavior?
Yes you can celebrate it. The negative aspects of christian majority behaviour are perpetuated BY the christian majority, not by the holiday itself.
As long as people are aware where christmas REALLY comes from (roman catholics co-opting pagan holiday to aid acceptance of their religion on conquered peoples)... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 14:55:01 [Permalink]
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I like Christmas. I like to 'celebrate' Christmas (as in the average person's celebration, much like yours, though I like the decoration). I like Christmas movies and the simple feel of the season. Heck, I just like it.
Am I a Christian? Not at all. Does my liking of Christmas has any relevance on my religious beliefs? No, it's just a fun thing to do. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 16:19:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
I like Christmas. I like to 'celebrate' Christmas (as in the average person's celebration, much like yours, though I like the decoration). I like Christmas movies and the simple feel of the season. Heck, I just like it.
Am I a Christian? Not at all. Does my liking of Christmas has any relevance on my religious beliefs? No, it's just a fun thing to do.
What she said.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 19:13:30 [Permalink]
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Well, lets see. I celebrate Hanukah, Christmas, Passover, Dia de los Muertos, (Halloween kinda, which has a religious underpinning,) St. Patrick's Day, used to do Easter (when the kids were small,) and I'm sure I am not remembering some others.
Any excuse for a good meal and fun with the family…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 20:42:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
I like Christmas. I like to 'celebrate' Christmas (as in the average person's celebration, much like yours, though I like the decoration). I like Christmas movies and the simple feel of the season. Heck, I just like it. Am I a Christian? Not at all. Does my liking of Christmas has any relevance on my religious beliefs? No, it's just a fun thing to do.
Me too. When I was a kid, a Christmas tree meant: interesting colors, forest smell, sparkles of tinsel, and later: presents. Same as an adult, though this year Mrs. Chippewa and I don't have a tree because we're going to visit both our mom's. Also, my wife's cousin has plenty of live pine trees right outside her door.  |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 20:57:44 [Permalink]
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I'm about as big an atheist as they come and I love Christmas. I'd be tempted to leave out the nativity scene and advent calendar, but they were in my house growing up so I can understand the desire to keep them around for tradition's sake.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/02/2005 20:58:08 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 22:08:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
As long as people are aware where christmas REALLY comes from (roman catholics co-opting pagan holiday to aid acceptance of their religion on conquered peoples)...
Not on conquered peoples so much. But on the whole of the Roman empire when christianity became the official state religion.
But yes, prior to that the official religion was the worship of Sol Invictus. The invincible sun. Prior to the the switch to the Gregorian calendar December 24 was the shortest day of the year (on the old Julian calendar) and December 25th was the rebirth of the sun. There are also a boatload of pagan celebrations that occur on or around the winter solstice. I also recall reading somewhere that the early christians celebrated the birth of jesus sometime in January.
Christianity, as the official religion of the empire, couldn't just stomp these out... so they just took them over and made up reasons for the holidays to be christian holidays.
Also, if I remember correctly, the Romans had a long tradition of allowing conquered people to retain their own religions. They were tolerant as long as they paid their taxes. That did change in the later years of the empire though.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 12:43:19 [Permalink]
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I'm an atheist and Humanist, as is my husband, so we celebrate Winter Solstice with community organizations, and I mail out "Happy Solstice" cards to all my friends and families in December. Some Humanists have started celebrating a holiday called "Human Light", which I find rather cheesy, but I would go to those celebrations if my local community held them instead of Winter Solstice celebrations. We do visit and exchange gifts with our Christian families on Dec. 25th, but neither of us attend midnight mass with them or actually say "Merry Christmas", so it's questionable whether that could be called celebrating Christmas.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 12:44:56 [Permalink]
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I just looked up "federal holidays" in wikipedia, which led me to an entry on "Holidays in the United States", and I found this sentence about Christmas interesting:
"Christmas Day, December 25, is a largely secular holiday in the United States with only a tangential relationship to its Christian origins."
What you guys are saying seems to confirm this. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 13:08:14 [Permalink]
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| Happy Solstice? But... this year's solstice will fall on the 21st... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 13:29:32 [Permalink]
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Siberia wrote: Happy Solstice? But... this year's solstice will fall on the 21st...
I didn't say we celebrate Soltice ON December 25th. My husband and I are going to the American Atheist Winter Soltice Meet-N-Greet on December 17th. We're having our private family Solstice dinner on December 18th.
Does anyone who does celebrate Christmas only celebrate it on December 25th? Heck no! So why even get picky about dates? |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 13:53:50 [Permalink]
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I was just being annoying, dear  |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 14:30:51 [Permalink]
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| I'm telling you, Christmas is the holiday for capitalists. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 15:29:34 [Permalink]
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| No doubt, but I still like any excuse for good food (mostly unhealthy.) Whatever the supposed reasons they're orchestrating these things, there's some pretty good stuff that only seems to come around at the stores certain times of the year. |
Ron White |
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