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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2005 : 16:00:27 [Permalink]
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I was just being annoying, dear
Sorry, I get especially sensitive about my beliefs this time of year. Get shit from both sides: The religious folks saying, "What the heck is Solstice? Is that some sort of fake Christmas for atheists? Why don't you celebrate nothing if you aren't Christian?" and from atheistic folks saying either, "Solstice is stupid. Just celebrate X-mas like everyone else." or, "It is hypocritical for atheists to celebrate anything this time of year, you hypocrite!"
And then there is, of course, the perverse amount of needless spending. Sure, people give more to charity this time of year too, but the charitable giving is dwarfed by the amount of money spent on "gifts". I put gifts in quotations because I've read things that say that the average American while shopping for holiday gifts actually ends up spending more money on things for themselves. For a lot of people, Christmas is just a big excuse for being a selfish asshole.
I really fucking hate this time of year. *grunting with dismay.* |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 10:33:02 [Permalink]
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I am an atheist and I dislike christmas. Not from an ideological motivation, simply because I dislike the stress of finding presents for all of my family and the decorations that I find tacky. I also do not like traditional christmas food... the ham is ok though.
I do like Lucia though, despite the fact of its religious origin. There's a nice celebration to remind you that eventually it will be summer again. Song, light and lussekatter. I warmly recommend it. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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Bunga
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
74 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 11:24:55 [Permalink]
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I tend to enjoy christmas, but lately that has changed. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy meeting the entire family, the giving of gifts and the excuse for an obscene amount of food, candies, cookies and whatnot. I even enjoy several of the traditions we follow merely for tradition's sake, like [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_worldwide#Sweden]watching disney[/url].
Unfortunatly, I seem to have developed an allergy to christmas trees. It hits me like a hammer, in fact. Which as you can imagine, ruins the mood. This year we are going with a fake tree, but it won't be the same.
You should try the herring, Subjectmatter. The christmas ham can be good, but the picked herring is king. |
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend
173 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 11:35:21 [Permalink]
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You will never convince me to eat herring. It is the devil-food. The prinskorv makes me nauseous and I get really tired of meatballs after a while. Thank god for january when there's real food to be had.
But you're right about Disney. That is a good tradition. And I guess my family aren't that bad once you get used to the smell (no offense). It's the stress that pisses me off. |
Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 14:31:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Does anyone who does celebrate Christmas only celebrate it on December 25th? Heck no! So why even get picky about dates?
Definitely not on the 25th. In Sweden it's always done on the 24th.
quote:
So the question on my mind is: Can you celebrate religious holidays strictly for the tradition and the connections that it nurtures, or do you think it perpetuates negative aspects of Christian Majority behavior?
Christmas was never about religion when I grew up. It was about christmas dinner buffet, Donald Duck at 3 pm on the telly and PRESSIES. Since I'm living in New Zealand now, there is no Donald on the telly, you do NOT want to have a stodgy buffet in the middle of summer, but at least the kiddies get the presents. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Bunga
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
74 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 16:51:00 [Permalink]
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| Get one of your relatives to tape it next time it is on, and send you the tape. That way, you can watch it next year at least. Hell, you might even have time to download it if any of your relatives or friends in Sweden is computer savvy enough to upload it, that way you can watch it at 3 pm local time this year as well. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 17:59:07 [Permalink]
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I'm in it for the tradition, and the cozy feeling of it. Bringing out the candles, turn off the lights and watch the moderately adorned Christmas-tree. And then there's the food. Some of the Swedish dishes are horrible to me, and I avoid them with a vengeace: Boiled egg, Lutfisk, and some other stuff that I don't know if there even are English words for.
But I love the ham, meatballs, sausages, the baked potatoes... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 20:37:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Since I'm living in New Zealand now...you do NOT want to have a stodgy buffet in the middle of summer.
I don't think I could celebrate Christmas as summer holiday. It's totally a "shake off the gloom of winter, have a cheery feast" type celebration in my mind.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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LizW
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2005 : 08:32:40 [Permalink]
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This is the sort of thing I meant when I said "negative aspects of Christian Majority behavior.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1210merryxmas1210.html
quote:
And so Wildmon will continue on his organization's quest to put "Christmas" back into the holiday season. The group is behind the consumer boycotts of retailers like Target and Sears that downplay Christmas in advertisements and in-store displays.
This year, 700,000 people joined the Target boycott, Wildmon says, and the retailer acquiesced. After hearing from the association, Sears and Lowe's stores put Christmas back on signs. Next year, Wildmon is expecting more Christmas cheer from Wal-Mart.
"Let's don't change everything to be generic," Wildmon says. "Kids don't run downstairs at 5 a.m. on New Year's Day. People buy Christmas gifts. They go Christmas shopping. This is the Christmas season, and we don't need to purge it from our stores and our schools and the culture of the public."
He also criticizes things like the "winter program" at an elementary school in Dodgeville, Wis. The event featured the familiar lilting notes of Silent Night, with a new name and new lyrics. Cold in the Night goes like this: "Cold in the night, no one in sight, winter winds whirl and bite."
Should anyone have wished to complain about this attack on Christmas, there's a Scottsdale-based national network of more than 800 attorneys "poised to fight the battle for Christmas," says Jeremy Tedesco, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, which trains lawyers nationally on Christmas-related litigation.
I can't tell whether this is a tempest in a teapot, or an aggressive attempt to keep christianty in the forefront of public life? I believe the former, but worry about the latter. |
You learn something new every g****mn day! |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2005 : 14:28:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Since I'm living in New Zealand now...you do NOT want to have a stodgy buffet in the middle of summer.
I don't think I could celebrate Christmas as summer holiday. It's totally a "shake off the gloom of winter, have a cheery feast" type celebration in my mind.
I was in Australia for Xmas one year. It was indeed odd. Not to mention crackers and the Queen's message. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2005 : 14:30:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by LizW
This is the sort of thing I meant when I said "negative aspects of Christian Majority behavior.
....
I can't tell whether this is a tempest in a teapot, or an aggressive attempt to keep christianty in the forefront of public life? I believe the former, but worry about the latter.
It's the leaders drumming up persecution. It's an effective way to motivate and solidify the group. It only takes a few Karl Rove's at the top to get the ball rolling, the rest follow without realizing any conscious manipulating even occurred.
Have no fear abortions will become illegal anytime soon. Those in the Bush admin know a good 'get out the vote gimmick' when they see one. Do you doubt they knew what they were doing with the gay marriage thing? Or with Bush the Evangelical Pres.? |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 12/10/2005 14:33:09 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 18:12:50 [Permalink]
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To LizW's concerns, I agree with beskeptical. First of all, no matter how many lawyers they have, they aren't going to win. Private businesses have the right and will celebrate the holiday season however the hell they want. Unless the number of people boycotting is more than 15% of the population (which is roughly the percentage of non-Christians) the businesses will keep on doing the generic thing because it is overall friendlier. Keep in mind too that lots of Christians support a generic public celebration of the holidays because they think religion should be a private and thus more sacred thing. Second of all, if they try to push it on the courthouses and public schools, they lose because of the first ammendment.
Despite the occasional minor and major setbacks, we are ultimately winning this culture war. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 04:04:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Since I'm living in New Zealand now...you do NOT want to have a stodgy buffet in the middle of summer.
I don't think I could celebrate Christmas as summer holiday. It's totally a "shake off the gloom of winter, have a cheery feast" type celebration in my mind.
I was in Australia for Xmas one year. It was indeed odd. Not to mention crackers and the Queen's message.
Well, for the past 21 years I've been celebrating it during summer - it's all good to me. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 12/14/2005 04:06:38 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 06:37:57 [Permalink]
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I no longer pretend to celebrate the Christ Mass Holy Day or any other holy day(holiday) for that matter. Holy is the mother of all problems with humanity. This goes for solstice worshipping as well.
I will enjoy the day off, though my pole is damaged. Festivus for the rest of us.
Of course I'll be sacrificing a goat on the morning of the 25th, but only to ensure that the Pistons beat the Spurs in the afternoon. I need Ramses to give Tim Duncan cramps or something. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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