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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/21/2005 : 17:59:04 [Permalink]
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Have we lost him? I hope not; it was just starting to get interesting.
Perhaps he's just taking a break...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 18:25:50 [Permalink]
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Why is it that all the anti-evolution types write these horrible stream-of-conscious screeds with only occasional use of things like punctuation or paragraphs!?! It's so hard to reply to a post like this.
So Bill, here's the deal: if you want an honest debate/discussion, why not stick to one point. Reply here-- or start a new thread-- and ask perhaps one or two questions (or make one or two assertions) in a succinct, easy-to-follow manner so some real discussion can come about. If you aren't interested (or are otherwise unable to do this), then that's fine. But really-- there are good answers to all your questions (except the death thing-- I don't know anything about that... but perhaps someone here does) that can demonstrate pretty clearly what the deal is with evolution and why it isn't a "philosophy." |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 18:55:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Why is it that all the anti-evolution types write these horrible stream-of-conscious screeds with only occasional use of things like punctuation or paragraphs!?!
Lack of education combined with a lack of desire to learn.
The lack of punctuation and any grammatical structure seems to typify many posts by crazed creationists ranting against evolution.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 19:11:51 [Permalink]
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This looks like the same Bill Scott we've met before in this piece of Fan Mail from August 20, 2003...quote:
Still Spouting...
Why do we find trillions of inverebrates, but no ancestors? There is no evidence whatsoever in the fossil record where it should be most abundant. The fossils often used as transtional examples are mammalian, which make up less than 0.1% of the record! The reason is that these fossils more easily allow wild speculation and fantasy to rule the day, as shown by the many failed examples put forth from this group, such as Piltdown Man, Nebraska Man, Ramapethicus, the horse series, Dino Bird, etc. I would like to save you some time Tommy by suggesting you shouldn''t bother citing Kathleen Hunt''s Talk.Origins FAQ (its a virtual certainty this would have been your responce), since she provides no examples in this category, as her fantasy list is mostly mammalian, from that 0.1% group. Also, please do not show pictures of clams turning into clams.
Welcome, Bill Scott, to SFN. It's baffling that since you wrote that email you've had over two years to read up a little on the theory of evolution, and you still don't have the remotest clue about science in general or evolution in particular.quote:
Originally posted by Bill Scott...
Is that where CD wonders why no TF have been unearthed and why I wonder the same thing 150 years later?
Obviously you missed the transitional fossils posted by filthy on Page 1 of this thread. But you seem to refuse to acknowledge them every time you've been referred to transitional fossils. Interesting that you should demand to see millions of them, but won't even look at the ones that have been laid at your feet. You do realize, don't you, that you're making yourself look like a complete idiot?quote:
Why is evolution philosophy the only religion/worldview allowed presented to kids by the government?
Every parent sees differences between what their children learn at school and how they might like their children to interpret and understand those things. If you're afraid you can't educate your children properly then you might be one of the small portion of parents who just don't have what it takes to raise a child in a safe and healthy way. There are social agencies available to take over the raising of your children whenever you decide to relinquish that responsibility. I can imagine how it would be a serious blow to your pride to admit that you can't raise your children properly. There are social agencies that can help you with that dilemma, too.
Maybe you're scared your children will come home from school at about seven or eight years old and have acquired an education so far advanced from yours that it leaves you hopelessly embarrassed.quote:
(bill) what mueseum did you say I could go to and see a real live (pardon the pun) missing link or transtional fossil? Please don't give me any more links to cyberspace. I want a location of a missing link on display for all to see. Maybe a dog durning into a whale or a nylon bug turning into a monkey that would be cool. There are many TF and ML on display around the country right?
A dog turning into a whale? A nylon bug turning into a monkey? You are fast going down hill in this discussion. Reality check: Your children need to get a good quality science education at school because clearly you are totally incompetent to provide them any guidance in this area at home.
I agree with the others here who have suggested that you know absolutely nothing useful about the theory of evolution and you completely misunderstand the scientific process. Your efforts to continue an intelligent discussion on the topic just might be futile.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 19:59:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
My question/point was and remains why do evolutionist's feel they have a right to force their philosophy down my kids throat at school when other worldviews are not given the time of day?
They don't. You don't send your kids to public school. Proponents of evolution might like to see evolution be taught at whatever private school your kids attend (or have you teach it if your kids are homeschooled), but they cannot mandate the cirriculum at non-government schools of any sort.
That being said, they can't force evolution to be taught at government-run schools, either. Voters do that, by electing school board members who think evolution should be taught as part of the standard science cirriculum. Since no "other worldview" is scientific, why would any of them get taught in science class (your assertions that evolution is a religion fail the Supreme Court test)?
So, if you don't like evolution being taught in your public schools, the answer is simple: vote out the school board members who are likely to support the continued teaching of evolution. Vote in school-board members who'll be likely to say "we don't need our children to learn this science."
Make sure to keep them quiet, though. Don't let them try to adopt "equal time" cirricula, since the courts have said that no religion can be taught as science. Don't let them announce that they're eliminating evolution because it offends some citizens, as the courts have already ruled that's a First Amendment violation, too.
No, they must be super-sneaky, and simply remove evolution from the cirriculum, preferrably in closed-door meetings. And then they've gotta keep quiet about their reasons for eliminating evolution from the cirriculum, even when asked by a judge.quote:
Either all philosophical worldviews should presented or none.
The philosophical worldview you are arguing against is science. Evolution is just one small result of the philosophy of science. I would guess the real pisser, from your point of view, is that most parents want their kids to be taught science. So not only is evolution taught, but biology in general, and geology, and chemistry, and physics, and architecture, and auto shop, etc.. If you want to eliminate the philosophy which has led to evolution, you must eliminate all science classes from school. Every last one of them with even a hint of science's philosophy. Because eliminating only evolution won't cut it.
As for other philosophical worldviews, any one which is religious in nature cannot be taught, except comparatively, per the First Amendment. (You see, not all philosophical worldviews are religious, some are and some aren't.) So, if you'd like (for example) Biblical literalism taught in school, it'll have to be in a comparative religions class in which it will be compared and contrasted with (for example) Hinduism and/or North American shamanism. It cannot be taught in a science class, since it isn't science, and it can't be taught by itself because that would be an establishment of one religion over all others.quote:
Seems pretty much like hypocrisy to me...
That's because you think the phrase "philosophical worldview" is a synonym for "religion," but it's not. The First Amendment doesn't forbid the teaching of philosophies, and most people find the philosophical worldview of science to be helpful, what with its plastics, economy cars, life-saving medical treatments, computers and the like...
Hey, if you're so dead-set against the philosophical worldview which has foisted evolution upon us, why would you even touch a computer? The same philosophical worldview is responsible for both. Seems like hypocrisy to me. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 20:03:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So, we know that Piltdown Man, Nebraska man, and my personal favorite; Archaeorapter, were all hoaxs. I will ask, who discovered that these were not the real thing?
(bill) OK one more time. My point was not that becasue the bird/ raptor was fake that by default mant the TOE was fake. My point is/was/remains that NG paid big $$$ for suposed TF showing lizard to bird. So fine it was fake NG got taken who cares right? No, this proves that the TF does not excist and that NG was trying to claim they finaly found a missing link. Proving that the TF does not excist in abundance as CD predicted it would thus by his own admission admiting that the TOE would be dead. So where are they? NG knows they don't excist and that is why they were willing to pay big jack and risk their rep on a posiable scoop. They want to scoop the TF just like you want to scoop the SFN crowd by disproving the TOE and winning the NP. If the TOE were fact the nations NHM's would be stuffed to the rafters with TF. You would be able to pick up a TF key chain in the gift shop on your way out the door. Memo: They are not at the nations NHM'S or any other nations for that mater. They do not excist in abundance as CD said they would. NG proves this point for me.
Lemme tell ya something, Bill; you might not believe it but debunking the theory of evolution is one of the greatest prizes in science. If only I could do it! Would I hide it so as not to upset the status quo? Hell no, I would not! You'd have to shoot me to shut me up about it!
(bill) It apears we share common interests...
Listen, if I had solid evidence to that end, the Nobel Prize in science would be mine -- they'd probably deliver it to my door. I'd earn a fortune on the lecture circute and write long, dull books to bore undergraduate students to near-suicide because they would be required reading. My name would replace Darwin's in history, and my peers would bitterly hate me for seeing what they could not.
(bill) Yeah maybe?
If you think that the ToE is some sort of dogma, you really need to study the topic as it is, not as some preacher or special intrest group such as AiG or the Discovery Institute would have you think that it is.
(bill) 1. Please give me your five personal favorite TF displays and the location where they might be on display.
2. Please demonstrate for me or give me an example of natural random blind chance i.e. genetic mutations creating vast amounts of complex programing for a reason like Tommy H. says happens. For a "reason", oh thats rich. As if the TOE can reason now as well as program. Please...
And now, I will suggest that you go to Talk Orgins and browse a bit, then go to this site and this one before coming back to discuss it with us.
(bill) I will as soon as you perform my two requests.
reguards Bill
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 20:33:55 [Permalink]
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Bill: It's obvious you don't, can't, and won't understand science, and evolution in particular (but you are really good at acronyms). Others have tried to give you some good information and you'll have none of it. Fine. Enjoy your ignorance.
So let's get to your beliefs regarding how homo sapiens happened to appear on this particular rock.
If the bible is true, then the earth is only 10,000 years or so old. Threre should be hardly any fossils, and certainly none older than 10K years. Why are there so many that are significantly older? And why so many that are far older than the oldest humanoid?
If the bible is true, then the earth is only 10,000 years or so old. There shouldn't be any deposits of oil or natural gas, yet we find them all over the globe. Why is that, Bill?
Start with those two, and please direct us to the museums which support your answers. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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lord_hevonen
New Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 22:27:14 [Permalink]
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| I'm an agnostic myself, but i respect religions and i hate it when modern science is tagged "just another religion". People who say this demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of the nature and mystery of true religion. Faith is something way more than just not being able to prove your beliefs. I suggest that you creationists not only study evolution, but also your theology. A combination of Stephen Jay Gould and Paul Tillich might do the trick. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 22:45:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm an agnostic myself, but i respect religions and i hate it when modern science is tagged "just another religion". People who say this demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of the nature and mystery of true religion
Ignorance has deep roots. The people who claim that evolution and/or science is "just another religion" tend to be, in my experience, uneducated and uninterested in learning. They are even poorly informed about their own religion, which is usually what motivates them to put their ignorance on public display in the first place.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 02:23:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
(bill) 1. Please give me your five personal favorite TF displays and the location where they might be on display.
Do you lack the ability to read?
But I think that I understand; you want me to take you by the hand and lead you through museum exibits. It ain't on. I do that with my own kids and grandkids, not someone else' except by invitation.
Get off your ass and look for yourself.
quote:
2. Please demonstrate for me or give me an example of natural random blind chance i.e. genetic mutations creating vast amounts of complex programing for a reason like Tommy H. says happens. For a "reason", oh thats rich. As if the TOE can reason now as well as program. Please...
Evolution, as weird as it sometimes is, does not work by blind chance. It works by random mutation resulting in a species becoming better adapted to it's enviornment. Look it up and get your definitions correct; you are spouting nonsense.
Examples: blind cave fish that still show the reminents of eyes; the extended forefingers of the aye-aye; the insciors of the grasshopper mouse; the degenerate toes of equines; the digestive system of ruminates; the degenerate pelvic girdle in whales; the foetal teeth, soon lost, in baleen whales; parthenogenisis in some lizards and geckos; the modified wrist bone pandas use for a thumb; tiger ants (solitary, flightless wasps); the pollenization system of the hammer orchid; the ovipositors of the ichnumon wasps; Darwin's finches (one of them is a vampire); the salt elimination system of the marine iguana; the fingers and lateral line of the Surinam toad (which has no tongue -- go figger); the rattlesnake's rattle; the capture/defense system of the mantis shrimp; the reminants of your very own tail. The list is as endless as it is remarkable -- don't take my word for it; look 'em up.
Now then, when are you going to answer my questions, those that I posed lo, these many posts ago?
1. What is your version of reality?
2. With what would you replace the ToE in the schools?
I don't think that you will answer them. I think that Tommy and Dawn, if indeed you did converse with them, flayed your arguments down to the fat, then flensed them to the bone, and you think that we might do the same. That is a correct assumption, of course. Cutting through bullshit is what skeptics do, and thus far, you have offered exactly nothing but that same bullshit: hand-waving, straw men, and red herrings. If you look at the last couple of links I posted, regarding logical fallicies, you will see what I mean.
But perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic. If so, I await your answers.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 06:30:55 [Permalink]
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After reading the entire thread to this point addressing Bill's issues seems futile.
Bill didn't come here for honest discussion, debate, and he is not open to learning. Bill raises issues, people address those issues, and then Bill raises those same issues. Must be working from a limited script. But that is what happens when people are given the absolute "Truth" and find it consoling. They believe that discussion, debate, and perhaps even thinking is a simple matter of repeating sound bites.
I always find it interesting when people, such as Bill, in order to weaken the position of something they are critical of, such as evolution, will frame it in religious terms. He must be very insecure about his "Truth" resting firmly on a foundation of faith.
Merry Christmas Bill. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 12/22/2005 06:33:48 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 07:11:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by lord_hevonen
I'm an agnostic myself, but i respect religions and i hate it when modern science is tagged "just another religion". People who say this demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of the nature and mystery of true religion. Faith is something way more than just not being able to prove your beliefs. I suggest that you creationists not only study evolution, but also your theology. A combination of Stephen Jay Gould and Paul Tillich might do the trick.
I'm an agnostic myself, but i respect religions and i hate it when modern science is tagged "just another religion".
(bill) I did not tag modern science a religon. I taged TOE a religon/worldview/philosphey what ever you care to call it but it is not science.
People who say this demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of the nature and mystery of true religion. Faith is something way more than just not being able to prove your beliefs.
(bill) That is why TOE is a religon. It is a philspocal set of beliefs which it's followers adhere to with great conviction in spite of the great lack of evidance to support CD.
I suggest that you creationists not only study evolution, but also your theology.
(bill) Thanks for the sugjestion.
A combination of Stephen Jay Gould and Paul Tillich might do the trick.
(bill) Yawn
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 07:13:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
After reading the entire thread to this point addressing Bill's issues seems futile.
Bill didn't come here for honest discussion, debate, and he is not open to learning. Bill raises issues, people address those issues, and then Bill raises those same issues. Must be working from a limited script. But that is what happens when people are given the absolute "Truth" and find it consoling. They believe that discussion, debate, and perhaps even thinking is a simple matter of repeating sound bites.
I always find it interesting when people, such as Bill, in order to weaken the position of something they are critical of, such as evolution, will frame it in religious terms. He must be very insecure about his "Truth" resting firmly on a foundation of faith.
Merry Christmas Bill.
Hell moak, I'm still trying to find out exactly what Bill's Absolute Truth is. He seems utterly unwilling to share it with us. I'm pretty sure it's some bent variation on Christian Creationism, but 'pretty sure' isn't good enough.
He wants evolution out of the schools, but refuses to come up with a replacement for it. He wants to struggle against evolution, but shows his knowledge of the subject to be abyssmal. You cannot struggle effectivly against something that you know nothing about and are unwilling to learn. Ah well...
I wish we'd someday get a real one in here. A Jonathon Sarfati or a Bill Dembski, or the equivelent. I would welcome Philip Johnson with open arms!
Ain't gonna happen, I don't think. They are far too smart to thwak the hornet's nest -- there's really no profit in it for them.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 07:14:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
(bill) 1. Please give me your five personal favorite TF displays and the location where they might be on display.
Do you lack the ability to read?
But I think that I understand; you want me to take you by the hand and lead you through museum exibits. It ain't on. I do that with my own kids and grandkids, not someone else' except by invitation.
Get off your ass and look for yourself.
quote:
2. Please demonstrate for me or give me an example of natural random blind chance i.e. genetic mutations creating vast amounts of complex programing for a reason like Tommy H. says happens. For a "reason", oh thats rich. As if the TOE can reason now as well as program. Please...
Evolution, as weird as it sometimes is, does not work by blind chance. It works by random mutation resulting in a species becoming better adapted to it's enviornment. Look it up and get your definitions correct; you are spouting nonsense.
Examples: blind cave fish that still show the reminents of eyes; the extended forefingers of the aye-aye; the insciors of the grasshopper mouse; the degenerate toes of equines; the digestive system of ruminates; the degenerate pelvic girdle in whales; the foetal teeth, soon lost, in baleen whales; parthenogenisis in some lizards and geckos; the modified wrist bone pandas use for a thumb; tiger ants (solitary, flightless wasps); the pollenization system of the hammer orchid; the ovipositors of the ichnumon wasps; Darwin's finches (one of them is a vampire); the salt elimination system of the marine iguana; the fingers and lateral line of the Surinam toad (which has no tongue -- go figger); the rattlesnake's rattle; the capture/defense system of the mantis shrimp; the reminants of your very own tail. The list is as endless as it is remarkable -- don't take my word for it; look 'em up.
Now then, when are you going to answer my questions, those that I posed lo, these many posts ago?
1. What is your version of reality?
2. With what would you replace the ToE in the schools?
I don't think that you will answer them. I think that Tommy and Dawn, if indeed you did converse with them, flayed your arguments down to the fat, then flensed them to the bone, and you think that we might do the same. That is a correct assumption, of course. Cutting through bullshit is what skeptics do, and thus far, you have offered exactly nothing but that same bullshit: hand-waving, straw men, and red herrings. If you look at the last couple of links I posted, regarding logical fallicies, you will see what I mean.
But perhaps I'm being overly pessimistic. If so, I await your answers.
Do you lack the ability to read?
(bill) I want to hear answers in YOUR own words. It gets rather time consuming and boring to just pass links back and forth leading to long drawn out essays and pics with MS Excel arrows pointing to supposed rocks that show lizards turning to birds, wolfs to whales, monkeys to men etc... I am sure you are well versed in all the links that you throw out so just give it to us in your words using the summed up version and it will keep this thread flowing much smoother
But I think that I understand; you want me to take you by the hand and lead you through museum exhibits. It ain't on. I do that with my own kids and grandkids, not someone else' except by invitation.
Get off your ass and look for yourself.
(bill) Yep. just like Tommy. Duck the request. One more time. See if Darwinian Macro Evolution were true and all the species we see today were derived from millions and millions of years of change starting with the SCO and working our way up to the creatures we see today then there would have been billions and billions of creatures that died along the way in the transitional state and they would have produced millions of fossils showing them in this state. But today we have unearthed millions of fossils and strangely all show the creatures in their current state. We have not found millions of fossils showing raptors progressing into birds like CD predicted we would and why then fact the NG would spend big $$$ and risk their rep to plaster a "missing link" if TF showing raptors to birds were already available in great mass? Answer: Because their are no TF and NG wanted a big scoop. If molecules to man evolution were fact then the worlds NHM would be stuffed to beyond capacity with TF showing the whole processes. If Darwinian macro evolution were true you in fact would be able to go down to your local NHM and have them ship me TF key chain from the gift shop as the SFN newest poster. Yet when asked where are all the TF that CD said we would fined you, as predicted, give me a link to cyberspace. Cyberspace? Is that the best you can do with thousands of TF out there currently on display at our NHM? Cyberspace? It is almost as if you are trying to cover for the fact the TF do not exist in abundance as CD said they would. Hmm.
Evolution, as weird as it sometimes is, does not work by blind chance. It works by random mutation
(bill) Right, it is natural random processes. It does not "program for a reason" like TH said it does. TOE can not reason. It does not start from scratch with an end result in mind. Yet that is all part of reasoning and programming. TOE and it's natural selection/blind chance/random processes as the mechanism what ever you want to call it can not "program for a reason" with an end result in mind no matter how bad you want it to be able to. Random creates dis-information always has and always will. TOE can not "program for a reason" no matter how much spin you would like to throw on it.
resulting in a species becoming better adapted to it's environment. Look it up and get your definitions correct; you are spouting nonsense.
(bill) I have no problem with micro evolution. The farther north you go and the colder it gets the dogs with longer and thicker coats will survive at a better rate. As the longer haired who survived in the colder claimant mated with other long hair canines they produced offspring with these characteristics. Hence we have the modern day wolf, Siberian husky, malamutes etc... What we don't see is the dog turning into a whale as the evolutionist would like us to believe. The fossil record does not support this and no just so story will magically make it reality either.
Examples: blind cave fish that still show the reminents of eyes;
(bill) The cave fish are still fish. Show me the fossils that show them mutating into a monkey.
the insciors of the grasshopper mouse;
(bill) it is still a mouse. Show me the fossils of the mouse mutating into a moose.
the degenerate toes of equines,
(bill) is still a equine
Darwin's finches (one of them is a vampire);
(bill) Darwin'd finches ARE STILL BIRDS. Micro evolution which I have no problem with.
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The list is as endless as it is remarkable
(bill) Endless, yes. Remarkable, no.
-- don't take my word for it; look 'em up.
(bill) I did.
Now then, when are you going to answer my questions, those that I posed lo, these many posts ago?
(bill) You still have |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Me too. Geez. 