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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2006 : 00:05:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
...I don't understand the 'complimenting' comment about being a Libertarian...
I was joking... implying he was being far-kinder than he normally is to others of similar political inclinations :)
Ok. I C.
That's because he knows I know where he lives. And I'll come over and ring his door bell and run. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 02:14:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Snake:
Are we being condescending, Kil?
No.
quote:
Snake:
If one is in a bad mood, that's one thing but to be nasty without offering a suggestion is another.
I suggested that you read what you are being critical of.
Your reply:
quote:
Snake: It has been my experience that after I read stuff like that it doesn't give me added information. Nor do my opinions often change either.
So, once you have stated that you are closed-minded on the subject of social programs, what more is there to say?
quote:
Snake:
I'm saying what I see isn't working and my solution is to stop throwing good money after bad.
I could say that about lots of things as well. We know that some programs don't work. Others do work. Here, we were talking about screening kids for depression. So, what exactly is it about screening for depression that doesn't work? How do you know that? Can you respond without resorting to an over generalization?
quote:
OVER-GENERALIZATION--This fallacy is to treat “one” or "some” instances of something as if they represent “most” or "all" instances of that thing. “All capitalists are selfish rich guys.” “Most men are chauvinistic.” “Most women are gold diggers.”
quote:
Snake:
How is that 'whining'?
Oh come on Norma. Okay, I will amend that to say that you complain a whole lot and very often about how the government is constantly stealing your money and giving it to people who don't deserve it. I'll even agree with you. We will just disagree over which people they are giving it to who don't deserve it. (Actually, in your case, I doubt if you see much of any government spending as deserving or a good thing… )
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 02:56:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
I am a proud misogynist but I have women friends, some are ok.
Ok, I'm missing something here. Your name is Norma but you list your gender as male, but the picture you provided of yourself appears female. Kil has now referred to you as a "her" but you openly state you hate women... what am I to assume?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/14/2006 02:57:17 |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 07:14:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Do they really listen to the individuals they are supposed to be representing?
Yes, I have it on good authority that BP, Exxon and Mobile are very pleased and have expressed great approval with their representation, and all happily concurred that recent government demands concerning oil industry monopolization and price-strategizing will be met, as well.
Ah, come on Ronny, you are smarter than that. So I'll assume you are joking again.
Yes, I continue to joke.
quote:
Originally posted by siberia
... crouch to not be hit by bullets ...
I know Brazil has had its economic crises and I'm really not very familiar with the state of living in those parts, but I wasn't aware things were commonly that bad... I'm sure it depends greatly between cities/areas. Gunplay and other violent crime, etc. occurs to greatly varying extents in "bad" sections of most major cities in the US... but as compared to the "everyday" circumstances endured by people in many other parts of the world, we overall enjoy a very "soft" existence in those, and many other respects. Sporadically, violent crime occurs in areas of virtually all socioeconomic strata within the US- it's just "a fact of life" here, as with most other places. But the frequencies- hence one's chances of encountering it- can differ hugely within short distances in major cities, as one passes from wealthier sections, to poverty and violence ridden areas.
Anyway, it's impressive to see that you're doing as well as you are in what are surely very trying circumstances. I hope your efforts yield good fortune, and you continue to live safely. |
Ron White |
| Edited by - ronnywhite on 01/14/2006 07:50:32 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 18:11:39 [Permalink]
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Snake wrote: They will go to jail or die.
Yeah, that's the point.
As far as these kids growing up to be criminals, I don't know how much worse things can get from what is happening now. And that's the product of after school programs and free lunch, etc., isn't it?
I don't think anyone here is arguing that the current social programs work perfectly. If you look at specific programs, some work very well and produce wonderful results. Others don't seem to do much at all. You seem to desire a simple solution so badly, but there is no simple solution. Criticism of ineffective social programs is not evidence that pure capitalism would be any better.
So how are things getting better. I only see worse.
How about a reduction in the types of crimes most often committed by poor intercity young adults? http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778268.html
From the Philadelphia Department of Human Services:
Philadelphia's approach to truancy prevention has a proven success rate. In the past year, 97 percent of the youth served by Philadelphia's Truancy Prevention programs have been removed from the School District's chronic truancy list. Moreover, these programs have improved school attendance rates by an average of 40 percent among participating youth and helped divert more than 3,000 youth from inappropriate placement in the child welfare system.
I work with a nonprofit as an instructor for truants in after school programs. I recently got the pleasure of referring an 8th grade girl for another program where she'll receive a stipend for working on murals in the summer, getting instruction from other professional artists. Instead of being a high risk for teenage pregnancy and drug abuse, she'll be spending her weekday afternoons working towards the beautification of her neighborhoods and learning marketable skills.
There is over 10 years worth of evidence to show anti-truancy initiatives in Philadelphia have produced a measurable positive affect. (Not to mention they provide modestly paid jobs for social workers and struggling artists.)
As I said, when I moved here it was a clean pleasant neighborhood, now there is graffiti all the time. I'm afraid of driving down the street. We've had these programs for years, then why have things gone down instead of up?
Because of trends with who buys what type of housing, urban neighborhoods have a natural life cycle. Basically, the typical lifestyle is that upper class people build new houses to either live in or rent out to young yuppies, but as the houses age, the economic status of the people living in them decreases until the neighborhood is finally revived through gentrification – and new houses are put in. Generally, this cycle will progress until there are other forces working against it. For example, here in Philadelphia the neighborhoods immediately surrounding the University of Pennsylvania stay good because the University has programs that give economic incentives to employees who buys homes there. Temple University, on the other hand, has no such programs, and thus, the area surrounding Temple is a nasty ghetto. The social programs didn't cause your neighborhood to decline. But they are apparently not strong enough to counteract other economic forces that have caused your neighborhood to go to shit. If you make enough money, move. If you don't make enough money, then will a tax break really improve your living conditions that profoundly?
You also seem to be taking your own personal experience and using it to generalize about all social programs without very much hard evidence.
The problem should be cut off at the source, that is... people should not have kids who can't afford them.
So what are you suggesting? China has certainly managed to curb overpopulation problems, but at what cost? Fining poor people for having kids won't work since poor people can't pay the fine. Jailing people f |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 01/14/2006 18:23:48 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 21:56:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
I am a proud misogynist but I have women friends, some are ok.
Ok, I'm missing something here. Your name is Norma but you list your gender as male, but the picture you provided of yourself appears female. Kil has now referred to you as a "her" but you openly state you hate women... what am I to assume?
1st of all what does it matter?
But, Mr. David do you want to field that one? Although i'm not sure Kil will mess it up or be sarcastic.
He once a long time ago explained it very nicely I thought with understanding. Remember, David?
Otherwise I could try!
BTW, Kil made a mistake saying she and I meant to tell him so but he'll just say something back....so why try.
Ps. My picture? I thought I had a photo of Woody, my dog. Hey! Are you calling me a dog. Thank you, if so.
I thought I might add, for now, that my parents named me after my dead uncle Norman as well as having the ironic unforeseen hilarity of giving me a middle name starting with 'L'.
 Norma L.  |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/14/2006 22:21:42 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2006 : 22:08:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Snake:
Are we being condescending, Kil?
No.
quote:
Snake:
If one is in a bad mood, that's one thing but to be nasty without offering a suggestion is another.
I suggested that you read what you are being critical of.
Your reply:
quote:
Snake: It has been my experience that after I read stuff like that it doesn't give me added information. Nor do my opinions often change either.
So, once you have stated that you are closed-minded on the subject of social programs, what more is there to say?
Closed minded?
I think I'll just talk to Ronny, we understand each other....... I think or at least have a little better communication.
But 1st a word from our sponsor ....
I mean 1st, who said anything about being closed minded. I've changed my opinion about gun control completely around and am almost reversed on the death penalty. Two big issues, so where do you get that I wouldn't listen to what others say?
You are showing an example of being picky. Or for the benifit of doubt, maybe not understanding.
OH, YIKES! I just realized.....you think reading an article is important.....to find out information. Is that it?
While I'm thinking, reading stuff like that, only says what one person wants you to see. Hearing more than one opinion about an issue is when one gets information or ideas. Ah gees, I know you are not going to understand. Well, I tried. My mind is made up! |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/14/2006 22:35:34 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 14:01:40 [Permalink]
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On Snake's gender, er, sex, er whatever:
Humbert wrote: Your name is Norma but you list your gender as male, but the picture you provided of yourself appears female.
Dude, Snake's age is also listed as 15, and that's obviously not true. When I say the age I just assumed that nothing in the profile could be trusted to be true, and enjoyed the humor of it all.
Snake wrote: 1st of all what does it matter?
For the purposes of skeptic friends, only so people know what pronoun to use. But then, I suppose we could even just avoid using any. So all in all, it only matters to people who are sexist or dying of curiosity.
Snake wrote: BTW, Kil made a mistake saying she
I thought it didn't matter? ;-)
Anyway, it is confusing. The picture in your profile and on your website linked to this site look female, and ya got a girl's name. So even if you want to adopt a male gender on this forum, regardless of whatever the biological reality is, shouldn't you at least be consistent?
Damn it, conform! |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 01/15/2006 14:04:21 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 14:06:30 [Permalink]
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In regards to Kil calling Snake close-minded:
Kil wrote: So, once you have stated that you are closed-minded on the subject of social programs, what more is there to say?
Then why'd you even say that? I'm gonna have to side with Norma L. here. You're being sort of a rude booger. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 15:16:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
In regards to Kil calling Snake close-minded:
Kil wrote: So, once you have stated that you are closed-minded on the subject of social programs, what more is there to say?
Then why'd you even say that? I'm gonna have to side with Norma L. here. You're being sort of a rude booger.
How else am I to interpret this?
quote:
Me:
I suggested that you read what you are being critical of.
Norma: It has been my experience that after I read stuff like that it doesn't give me added information. Nor do my opinions often change either.
So she is open to criticize but it's ok to ignore the actual source she is criticizing because her experience is that she will not learn anything there and her opinions are pretty much set.
Are you saying that she is not being closed minded or that I am a rude booger by pointing it out? The last time I looked this site still promoted critical thinking. The day that pointing out someone's use of anecdotal evidence and over generalizations to the exclusion of actual research into a debatable subject is considered rude will be the day I throw in the towel…
It happens that I know Norma personally. I happen like to her. But the truth still remains and if I only knew her by her posts on this site I would have blown her out of the water three ways to Sunday.
Norma asked me if I was being condescending. It would have been condescending if I hadn't posted that reply.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 15:44:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
On Snake's gender, er, sex, er whatever:
Humbert wrote: Your name is Norma but you list your gender as male, but the picture you provided of yourself appears female.
Dude, Snake's age is also listed as 15, and that's obviously not true. When I say the age I just assumed that nothing in the profile could be trusted to be true, and enjoyed the humor of it all.
Snake wrote: 1st of all what does it matter?
For the purposes of skeptic friends, only so people know what pronoun to use. But then, I suppose we could even just avoid using any. So all in all, it only matters to people who are sexist or dying of curiosity.
Snake wrote: BTW, Kil made a mistake saying she
I thought it didn't matter? ;-)
Anyway, it is confusing. The picture in your profile and on your website linked to this site look female, and ya got a girl's name. So even if you want to adopt a male gender on this forum, regardless of whatever the biological reality is, shouldn't you at least be consistent?
Damn it, conform!
I forget why I put 15 for my age, I usualy say mentaly I'm 12.
As for gender, if you think it doesn't matter then fine with me.
I perfer if one uses he, him, Mr. when they refer to me because I hate women and have never been one. People can see me as they wish. What ever nature bestowed is what you get. I can't help that. Nor can I help the name my parents gave me. It's what I grew up with and what I'm used to being called (although my mother and others close have called me Norm, when they are not angry at me)
I like trains, played football as a child, like building things, hate cooking, sewing and dribbly babies (no, they are not cute and when they cry I'd like to put a sock in it). The list could go on but in other words being with and around women is boring and upsetting. Other than the women friends I know and can converse with the many others I see are scumy. Women are creepy, what they do makes no sense to me. I absolutly hate seeing those jokes about men being dogs, etc. So I'm just counteracting what those awful women do when they say things like that. There does that clear anything up?
Hey! I was just thinking.....how personal do you want to get. For one thing, everything on my website CuriousCreations.com is true, if you want to see a little more about me, but do you want to know what I wear too? I don't buy most of my clothes, only T shirts at the 99 cents store, my 'room mate' buys stuff for me (as my mother did) 'cause he knows my size and all and likes to shop. I do wear mens clothes and underwear, maybe that helps too. (I've also been known to be a transvestite at times ) BTW, I'm gay too. |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/15/2006 16:08:38 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 20:37:56 [Permalink]
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Snake, my reply to the gender thing, especially my command to "Damn it, conform!" was meant to be sarcastic. I was trying to tease Humbert for bothering to ask about your preferred gender, since I think it's obvious that you're a non-conventional personality.
Kil wrote: Are you saying that she is not being closed minded or that I am a rude booger by pointing it out?
No, I agree with you that in that instance Snake was demonstrating close-mindedness. But when he responded, he said that he has changed his mind about gun control and the death penalty, and suggested that you knew about those changes, so apparently Snake is not a close-minded person in general. And you discouraged anyone else from debating with Snake on this issue, which implies that you were accusing him of a more general type of close-mindedness, and I did think that was rude.
I called you a "booger" just 'cause I like the word and because it's funnier to call someone a "rude booger" than just "rude". Plus I didn't think you'd be a offended; you don't strike me as the oversensitive type. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 20:41:38 [Permalink]
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| So, Snake, are you gonna reply to my argument on topic or just give me more intimate details of your life? (Hint: As interesting as you are, I'd prefer the former.) |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2006 : 23:43:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
marfknox:
I called you a "booger" just 'cause I like the word and because it's funnier to call someone a "rude booger" than just "rude". Plus I didn't think you'd be a offended; you don't strike me as the oversensitive type.
I wasn't offended. I got a chuckle out of being called a rude booger. You should see some of the things I have been called in the mail I get. My favorite insult directed my way was at the last New Age Expo I attended. After pulling down the arm of a man who was demonstrating the power of what he was selling by pulling peoples arms down, (a display of applied kinesiology which happens to be a pseudo science) because I know the trick, his wife called me an “energy sucker.” Oh well…
Thing is, I call it as I see it. And even though I would like to be able to, I can't control how all of what I write might look to others. Norma and I have history. Years of it going all the way back to our old chat room at AOL. After all this time, I have to admit that I go after her with both barrels blazing…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2006 : 10:19:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by siberia
... crouch to not be hit by bullets ...
I know Brazil has had its economic crises and I'm really not very familiar with the state of living in those parts, but I wasn't aware things were commonly that bad... I'm sure it depends greatly between cities/areas. Gunplay and other violent crime, etc. occurs to greatly varying extents in "bad" sections of most major cities in the US... but as compared to the "everyday" circumstances endured by people in many other parts of the world, we overall enjoy a very "soft" existence in those, and many other respects. Sporadically, violent crime occurs in areas of virtually all socioeconomic strata within the US- it's just "a fact of life" here, as with most other places. But the frequencies- hence one's chances of encountering it- can differ hugely within short distances in major cities, as one passes from wealthier sections, to poverty and violence ridden areas.
Anyway, it's impressive to see that you're doing as well as you are in what are surely very trying circumstances. I hope your efforts yield good fortune, and you continue to live safely.
Yep. It is an everyday fact here, especially in the city I was born (which is particularly violent now, it wasn't so bad when I lived there - five years ago). We had our condo be invaded by drug dealers and a shoot out in the lobby (I had moved a couple months earlier). I have a friend that wants to move from her luxury apartment, but can't sell it, due to the walls being dented with bullets. She's the one who has to crouch to not be hit. I did go to sleep hearing guns far back, but they were far enough for us to not mind it much. And we lived in a peaceful neighbourhood.
I suppose it isn't too different from U.S., where some areas are "ultraviolent" and others aren't, though it is certainly not as rich.
Brazil is a funny country. It is certainly rich - it's been spared by a lot of inconveniences. No earthquakes, no volcanoes and only recently there have been cases of tornadoes and hurricanes, but much smaller than those U.S. has periodically. There are thoroughly peaceful places - such as the one I live in right now, though I did witness two attempts of robbery in five years - and it has extremely violent places. It has extremely rich areas and people literally starving to death in obscure small towns in the middle of the near desert. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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