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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2006 : 10:41:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scottquote:
Do you have any references to who uses this "battle cry", or is this yet another example of creationist dishonesty?
(bill) What's wrong SM? You can not even come with a good hypothesis on atheistic origins of PM and life, apart from the creator, that would make any kind of sense logically can you? Let alone a hypothesis that would even relate to reality in one iota. Let alone come up with 2 or 3 atheistic hypnosis that explain the origin of PM and life apart from an infinite creator. All those years of atheistic thought for not as they still have nothing.
Failure to provide references to claim noted.
I'll take further failures as evidence that you lack the honesty and/or the intellectual capacity to back up your assertions.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 11:34:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Is this a good list or a bad list?
It's a Special High Intensity Training list.
EDIT: I missed the captials. I'm sorry if I offended you, I was being sarcastic in my post to Bill and did not really mean what I said about theists. Please PM me if you would like to discuss further.
Nope. You didn't. I was trying to make fun of it. I knew you were being sarcastic.
It was sort of a Black Knight sort of comical threat. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 02/21/2006 11:36:16 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 11:48:09 [Permalink]
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| Doh! :-) |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 11:52:24 [Permalink]
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Bill, I have a question for you.
I want to know: How do you know that there was ever a time when physical matter didn't exist.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 12:29:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Bill, I have a question for you.
I want to know: How do you know that there was ever a time when physical matter didn't exist.
Ooooo. I KNOW this one.
Because his book of short stories told him that it didn't. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 14:00:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Bill - there is no "atheistic" theory to the origins of life. There are scientific (but I forget this is the same to you, right?) theories. You can google search for them, I simply don't care enough to do the research for you. Maybe someone else will do it, but I'm not.
I know you won't do it yourself, and you will walk away from this with the smug satisfaction that you won this argument. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Bill - there is no "atheistic" theory to the origins of life. There are scientific (but I forget this is the same to you, right?) theories. You can google search for them, I simply don't care enough to do the research for you. Maybe someone else will do it, but I'm not.
(bill) Just as I predicted. You completely refuse to even give one possible scenario or theory on the origins of life and PM apart from an infinite creator. I am asking for hypothesis here and you can't even imagine a justso story where PM and life begin to exist let alone come up with a "theory" that would align with reality. Not one atheist involved, or reading, this conversation has yet piped in with their logical theory on the origins of life and or PM apart from an eternal creator. When they try to dream up even a hypothesis for atheistic origins they truly see the futility of rejecting cause and effect theory as they can't even dream up a scenario where atheism origins align with reality.
I know you won't do it yourself,
(bill) Why should I? All the atheist on this forum and not one can pipe in with even a hypothesis to atheistic origins? How sad...
and you will walk away from this with the smug satisfaction that you won this argument. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
(bill) Maybe that is your game P? Maybe it is you who enjoys playing on your little website and blasting anyone who dares to challenge the party line. This makes you feel good and proud to blow up anybody that comes to this site, I can tell. Insult them enough and with enough of the others jumping in and when they have had enough and move on P will chalk up another stick figure on his chalk board and put an X through it and sit back in all his glory and just bath in his self-satisfaction.
Any word yet on the latest hypothesis on atheistic origins of PM and life itself? My prediction is that you will offer more ranting as smoke and mirrors and then refuse to offer any well thought out or imaginative atheistic theory or hypnosis on the origin of life and PM, again.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 14:12:22 [Permalink]
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:-) Buh bye Bill - do your own research. I don't care to discuss it with you anymore. You can call that whatever you want, you won't bruise my ego. I just don't give a shit.
Normally I would just refer you to websites where people much smarter than I discuss such theories, but that has already been done and you don't read them, so what's the friggin' point? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 14:43:02 [Permalink]
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And can you, Bill, come up with anything beyond unsupported conjecture, speculation, and outright blather in support of what ever it is you think were the origins?
In 200 & some-odd, barely intelligible posts you haven't yet, so I'm of the opinion that, at this late date, you never will.
You lack all knowledge of how science works, even though at least some of it has been shown you. You refuse to consider anything that might cast the least doubt upon your version of spirtus rex, the existance of which can be neither be tested nor even observed, and therefore is rightly ignored by science.
Which brings up another point: you have yet to put forth the identity of this imaginary friend of yours, that I have seen anyway -- your posts are formated so poorly that stuff is easy to miss.
Bill, the long and short of it is that you're full of shit. You've got nothing but noise; a demogogue without a lectern, a clown without an audience.
Your lack of the least familarity with even the simplest of scientific theory is appalling, and likely you don't even know what a scientific theory is -- a sad comment on our educational system. Will you ever bother to inform yourself?
I doubt it. It's so much easier to sneer and taunt than to study enough to know what the hell you're talking about.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 16:06:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Actually, little invisible pink elephants (LIEs) as an explanation for the origin of life and PM is just as logical as your (god) explanation. Yet you dismiss it with a handwave. What does that tell you about your own logic?
Actually, little invisible pink elephants (LIEs) as an explanation for the origin of life and PM is just as logical as your (god) explanation.
(bill) And more logical then "we don't know", "we don't know", and "blind random chance."
You failed to understand my point. This has nothing to do with "we don't know", "we don't know", and "blind random chance (whatever relevance that has).". You claim that the god explanation is superior to the LIEs explanation. From a logical point-of-view (something you claim to adhere to), however, they make the same sense. Yet you dismiss one and support the other. That is not logical. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 16:06:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
(bill) Why should I? All the atheist on this forum and not one can pipe in with even a hypothesis to atheistic origins? How sad...
You make up some nonsense term and then demand that we come up with a theory that supports your nonsense term.... and then you get all high and mighty when no one plays your stupid game?
Bill, you have to be aware that if your christian fundie god is real that you will be burning in hell for your arrogance and various other sins.
Anyway.... answer my question. I'll put it here for you again.
I want to know: How do you know that there was ever a time when physical matter didn't exist.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 16:54:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
What is wrong with "we don't know"? You don't know either. At least we are honest.
(bill) There is nothing wrong with "we don't know". But when the battle cry for atheistic theory becomes "we don't know, but we do know it was not god" that's when your position becomes laughable.
But when the battle cry for god theory becomes "we know it wasn't LIEs", that's when your position becomes laughable.
quote:
If the "atheist" (remember this is a catch-all group) cannot give a definitive answer to the origin of life, then therfore god (Bill's version of god, remember, all other versions are wrong) did it.
(bill) Smoke and mirrors as I have never yet tried to define the God who created the universe. An atheist does not subscribe to a god or gods so I have no interest, at this point, in debating who God is if the atheist does not even except a god to begin with.
You have. You said that it was an "infinite creator", whatever that is. This would exclude LIEs.
quote:
(bill) Just as I predicted. You completely refuse to even give one possible scenario or theory on the origins of life and PM apart from an infinite creator.
I hypothsise that LIEs created matter and life. LIEs are eternal and quite clever. They could do it.
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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trogdor
Skeptic Friend
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 16:55:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Actually, little invisible pink elephants (LIEs) as an explanation for the origin of life and PM is just as logical as your (god) explanation. Yet you dismiss it with a handwave. What does that tell you about your own logic?
I have heard the argument comparing god to invisible pink things before, but it has always rubbed me the wrong way. How can something be invisible and pink? HOW?!? |
all eyes were on Ford Prefect. some of them were on stalks.
-Douglas Adams |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 16:57:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by trogdor
I have heard the argument comparing god to invisible pink things before, but it has always rubbed me the wrong way. How can something be invisible and pink? HOW?!?
The same way god can be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
(Since evil exists, god either doesn't know, doesn't care, or can't do anything about it. He can't, however, be all three and still be a logically consistant entity.)
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/21/2006 16:59:48 |
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trogdor
Skeptic Friend
198 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 17:13:14 [Permalink]
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I seem to have missed something in this debate and am now very very confused.
Regardless I will try to respond to Bill as I understand him.
The atheistic origin of P.M. is the same as any other origin of P.M. Every day there is a time when the sun is at the highest point that day. this is called noon. The period after that is approprietly called afternoon. there is a abbreviation of that term based on the Latin post meridiem or P.M. If the creationist origin of P.M. is different please tell me. |
all eyes were on Ford Prefect. some of them were on stalks.
-Douglas Adams |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2006 : 18:28:43 [Permalink]
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Bill, you keep changing the atheist/skeptic stance of “We don't know how the universe or life began” to “We don't know how the universe or life began, but we're 100% sure it wasn't a god.”
Many atheists will say it was definitely not a specific god, such as the Christian god, or the Greek deities, or Hindu gods, and when we take that position it is based on clear inconsistencies between theology and science. We always side with science when science and theology conflicts because, thus far, science has produced many results, but theology remains unfalsifiable and unprovable, is often based on blind adherence to authority, and changes its own rules over time.
The design argument is bunk and it is bunk plainly because there is no way to back the claim that “humans are good at recognizing things created"(quoted from Bill) when the only things we know were created are human creations. Again, we don't know enough about the universe to say from a totally objective viewpoint what the ultimate and fundamental difference between a universe by chance and a universe by design would be. We do know, from science, that we are but a tiny little speck in at least the grand scheme of the material universe – and indeed, there is no way of telling what is beyond our universe. Our universe may even be a tiny little speck in the grand scheme of all things that exist! So, yes, Bill, all our accumulated knowledge does reveal for us just how much we don't know, because it has revealed to us our incredible smallness.
Given what we do know, I think anyone who claims to know how the universe and life started is an arrogant fool. “I don't know” is a brave and noble statement. Socrates championed it for good reason.
Bill, your answer: “I give you cause and effect and then the entire universe as evidence for a creator.” is merely philosophy, not evidence. We ask you for evidence, and you repeatedly give us philosophy. I'm starting to conclude that you don't know the difference.
I have yet to hear any atheist say “we know for a fact it ain't no god!”, and if I ever hear an atheist say that, I'll make fun of them. They certainly would not represent atheism at large.
And incidentally, Bill – you don't capitalize “atheist”. Atheism is not a religion, or even a worldview any more than “theism” is a religion or worldview. It is only one characteristic of some worldviews.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 02/21/2006 18:38:44 |
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