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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2006 : 16:15:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H.Humbert
quote:
But if you misinterpret your experiences, you "grow" in the wrong direction, which would be a profound mistake.
I would have to disagree..while I have misinterpeted certain experiences in my life I still have "grown".... from them...and not in the "wrong" direction...
if you mean by "misinterperting my experience" because my conclusion has lead me maybe to divine intervention....or...mind over body...none of those beliefs in my opinion has led me in a "wrong" direction...In fact they have lead me to some of my most profound experiences...
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Get your hospital record and give us a list of the meds they pumped into your IV.
The meds that are used to inhibit nausea definitely have side effects that can include sedation, euphoria, and hallucinations. The meds they give you to control pain.... do I even need to say it? In combination.... yeah, it must have been something supernatural.
One I went to the hospital on Saturday..My healing experience occurred on late Monday Nite and Early Tuesday morning...By Sunday A.m. I had already thrown up those fluids and meds I was given...by Monday Eve I was no longer vomitting..hence not taking the anti vomitting meds..... but the incredible pain I felt in my stomach..was unbearable... I never said it Was Supernatural..quite the contrary...Dude I found it to be something very Natural...
Originally posted by Marfknox
quote:
What about all the people who have the praying experience but who don't get better? My grandmother got TB when she was in her 20's, and had one lung removed. When she was 80 she told me that she credited God for her recovery and long-life (which incluced bearing and raising 4 kids!). Without missing a beat, I immediately asked her, "But Grandma, what about all the other people with TB who were praying for God to save them, and who died?" All she said back was "I don't know, honey."
A most difficult question and not a very clear answer for me...as well as others...I believe that illness,and suffering, and death are part of something more than just the "Human Experience" In my study of different religious philosophies and my own experiences... I have come to a certain conclusion that this existing life is just another lesson in the Souls exolutionary return to... God...Nirvana...Intelligent design.... Light..etc...
And it is through these profound experiences that we come closer to acheiving it....
To add to this profound experience...after only moments of posting yesterdays reply...My computer blew....Turned off...T.v. went off... I looked out to the Kitchen where... my most Wonderful Mother In Law was cooking Dinner... The kitchen light was still on...Damian investigated the incident and the MAsterBedroom fuse had blown... Although he reset it the Computer would not work until today...
Coincidence....Ha...Mind... can heal the Body...It can.. have influence on outside electrical implements...
I have concluded that hard nose Skeptics disbelieve in the existence of these Anomolies because of its lack of Replication or Control...But look how long it took Human to master Radio Waves...but yet they still existed...
The Body is merly the Antenna to Consciousness... To Mind.... |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 16:45:15 [Permalink]
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Storm said:
quote:
One I went to the hospital on Saturday..My healing experience occurred on late Monday Nite and Early Tuesday morning...By Sunday A.m. I had already thrown up those fluids and meds I was given...by Monday Eve I was no longer vomitting..hence not taking the anti vomitting meds..... but the incredible pain I felt in my stomach..was unbearable
So... you were in the hospital with severe pain and nausea for more or less 48 hours.... you were medicated.
Get the list of meds and the time/dose/route they were administered to you.
It will provide all the explanation for your hallucination you need.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:01:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
quote:
So... you were in the hospital with severe pain and nausea for more or less 48 hours.... you were medicated.
Get the list of meds and the time/dose/route they were administered to you.
It will provide all the explanation for your hallucination you need.
No I was in the hospital for no more than three hours on Saturday...released..and then proceed to Vomit all those Fluid and medications...and believe that was NO Hallucination...Pay attention to detail!!!! Instead of your contempt for my thoughts!!!! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:28:41 [Permalink]
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Storm raged: quote:
...Pay attention to detail!!!! Instead of your contempt for my thoughts!!!!
That would be easier if you took the time to write more coherently, using generally accepted punctuation and such. A little effort in communicating would help you get your ideas across, if not accepted. A lack of apparent sentence structure, and the eternal, infernal use of ellipses ("...") instead of good old commas and periods, is very distracting.
BTW, I am sincerely glad you recovered so well from that nasty infection. This kind of thing does have a cause. Please take note of Beskeptigal's suggestions: She's a medical person, and is trying to help you prevent a future problem of the same kind.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2006 22:20:38 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:37:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
and believe that was NO Hallucination...
How would you know? Storm, you have already demonstrated yourself to be what's termed a "fantasy-prone individual." You leap to unsound explanations for even the most trivial of daily occurances. You are simply not credible, and I trust nothing which comes out of your keyboard. That isn't to say I think you are a liar, just that you don't know how to properly separate reality from your personal fantasies.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/22/2006 17:39:59 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 17:44:05 [Permalink]
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Coincidences happen. They happen to everyone. Some of us go “huh, now that was a coincidence” while others look for deeper meaning. There are those who believe that there are no coincidences and everything that happens has a meaning. Whatever…
I just survived a heart attack because of the intervention of evidence based medical science.
Storm requires and credits a more nebulous intervention, along with the intervention of evidence based medical science, to relieve severe flu symptoms.
Whatever…
Why some people feel the need to add many layers of stuff on to what may simply be, I don't know. I often find the profound in science. To me, the fact that a cardiologist knew almost exactly what was going on with my heart by taking a blood test blows my mind. And, that a routine, technically non-surgical procedure that would have been considered a miracle only a few years ago, will most likely make a full recovery possible, blows my mind.
We live in an amazing world Storm. And while imagination is a great thing, you don't really need all that much of it to get just how amazing the world really is…
Edited.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 18:46:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
So... you were in the hospital with severe pain and nausea for more or less 48 hours.... you were medicated.
Get the list of meds and the time/dose/route they were administered to you.
It will provide all the explanation for your hallucination you need.
No I was in the hospital for no more than three hours on Saturday...released..and then proceed to Vomit all those Fluid and medications...and believe that was NO Hallucination...Pay attention to detail!!!! Instead of your contempt for my thoughts!!!!
I don't get it... Didn't you say you had I.V.?
Doesn't that mean the meds go directly into you bloodstream though a needle somewhere in your arm?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 20:16:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
... In my study of different religious philosophies and my own experiences... I have come to a certain conclusion that this existing life is just another lesson in the Souls exolutionary return to... God...Nirvana...Intelligent design.... Light..etc...
What is a Soul ?
How do I determine whether I have one or not ?
Why do you believe that the soul survives the death of the body ? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 20:23:03 [Permalink]
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In response to ghost skeptic - indeed, placebos are a powerful thing. But I think Storm's story sounds more like a coincidence, since the recovery was genuine. Your placebo stories are more about controlling a mental experience of pain.
And welcome, by the way!
Storm wrote: quote:
while I have misinterpeted certain experiences in my life I still have "grown".... from them...and not in the "wrong" direction...
if you mean by "misinterperting my experience" because my conclusion has lead me maybe to divine intervention....or...mind over body...none of those beliefs in my opinion has led me in a "wrong" direction...In fact they have lead me to some of my most profound experiences...
Methinks this is nonsense. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really do think this doesn't have any meaning; at least not any meaning that could be clearly and consistently understood by readers. Please clarify. Humbert was specifically referring to "wrong" as meaning harmful, such as people who refuse traditional medicine because they believe in alternatives that scientifically don't work. What do you mean when you write "wrong" and "right". It sounds a lot to me like you enjoy believing in these ideas. But what makes it "profound"?
Storm wrote: quote:
A most difficult question and not a very clear answer for me...as well as others...I believe that illness,and suffering, and death are part of something more than just the "Human Experience" In my study of different religious philosophies and my own experiences... I have come to a certain conclusion that this existing life is just another lesson in the Souls exolutionary return to... God...Nirvana...Intelligent design.... Light..etc...
And it is through these profound experiences that we come closer to acheiving it....
This is the type of language that opens you up to attacks. First, the overuse of elipses - I start to wonder if there is any intelligible thought represented by them, or if they are just for dramatic flare. Second, I've studied world religions too; in Hinduism, people do not return to Nirvana. Nirvana is liberation from reincarnation, the ever turning wheel of life, but it is not a place the soul goes after it dies. It is a state where absolute truth is realized, and one does not need to die to achieve it. It is fundamentally different from Christian and other western theistic notions of souls and afterlife. I have read spiritualist arguments for theological universalism, and philosophically, they never amount to much. Just a lot of flowery language that sacrifices basic tenets of religious beliefs for the sake of merging them all together. And third, if you are going to use the phrase in such a context, it would be "intelligent designer", not "Intelligent design". And fourth - Light? Are you referring to Quakers? The vague and flippant way you group these religious terms causes me to think you either don't understand the philosophical underpinnings of the various belief systems referred to, or that you just disregard those underpinings in order to force them to fit into your new-age spiritualism.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 22:25:53 [Permalink]
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I think folks are getting a bit harsh with Storm without cause here. I don't agree with the conclusions drawn about the healing but one's mind does have influence and perceived pain is an area with a lot of potential for mental control. I saw a medical show just the other day about hypnosis for burn patients getting dressing changes. They showed a guy who had severe hypotension with the morphine used for these patients so they used hypnosis alone. It gave him complete relief with the dressing change. He had really severe burns. The pain for these guys is truly excruciating.
Just remember to separate the mental influence on pain control from things the mind doesn't have control over. And keep in mind, people do usually get well eventually from intestinal infections. I really didn't hear anything in the story that fit an unusual sequence of events.
As to the "meds" in the IV, there were not likely any given. You don't use antibiotics or antiemetics in most cases of intestinal infections because they can actually make things worse. It depends on a number of factors but it isn't common to give anything. You give the person IV fluids since everything in the gut comes out and then some. Our digestion process dumps a huge amount of fluid in the gut so one can get very dehydrated very fast if things are not being absorbed (or reabsorbed). You do feel better after the fluids but you may not be well yet.
I'm still concerned you had an infection that while common, is completely avoidable, and dangerous to some. Some infections we can't really completely avoid, but no adult should be getting week long intestinal infections, (kids are different but you don't want them getting bacterial intestinal infections either). |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 23:39:03 [Permalink]
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Storm said:
quote:
Pay attention to detail!!!!
Use some basic grammar if you want to communicate. Periods at the end of a sentence, paragraph breaks, that kind of thing. Otherwise you forfeit your right to bitch about people not clearly getting what you type.
beskeptigal, if you come into an ER puking your guts out and complaining of intense pain... you are getting an anti-emetic and maybe some pain meds. If your white count comes back high, then you will prob be getting antibiotics as well. That is how it works in my experience anyway.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 15:54:14 [Permalink]
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Not if you get proper treatment, Dude. You could be admitted if the cookie toss won't stop for ongoing fluids, but an antiemetic would be contraindicated. And while I have mixed feelings on treating bacterial GI infections, much of the research advises against it. And, you shouldn't get an antibiotic until the cultures are back as well.
You are tossing cookies for a reason. There is a toxin in your system. Your body needs to get rid of it. Keeping it in would be worse. |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 08:34:50 [Permalink]
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Oriiginally posted by Marfnox
quote:
This is the type of language that opens you up to attacks. First, the overuse of elipses - I start to wonder if there is any intelligible thought represented by them, or if they are just for dramatic flare.
No one should be attacking anyone...This is a forum of discussion of very interesting and intelligable and sometimes wacky ideas....theories...I am the Elipse girl....the three dots represent a time for you take and contemplate what I have discussed...proposed...It is so much more contemplative then the .
Oh and dramatic flare never hurt anyone....
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
you have already demonstrated yourself to be what's termed a "fantasy-prone individual." You leap to unsound explanations for even the most trivial of daily occurances. You are simply not credible, and I trust nothing which comes out of your keyboard.
At one time years ago I could agree to the "fantasy prone individual" profile of myself ...but now in this day and time through much study and contemplation..it no longer fits... |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 08:46:19 [Permalink]
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Trust me it fits, just read your first post in this thread, if thats not fantasy prone I dont know what is.
It does take a few days for the body to develop a resistance and attack illnesses which are new to your system, compound that with your amazing ability to fool yourself, and poof, a sicknees scooping miracle. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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sts60
Skeptic Friend
141 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 12:29:37 [Permalink]
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I think folks are getting a bit harsh with Storm without cause here. I don't agree with the conclusions drawn about the healing but one's mind does have influence and perceived pain is an area with a lot of potential for mental control. I saw a medical show just the other day about hypnosis for burn patients getting dressing changes. They showed a guy who had severe hypotension with the morphine used for these patients so they used hypnosis alone. It gave him complete relief with the dressing change. He had really severe burns. The pain for these guys is truly excruciating.
Scientific American had an article about using virtual reality therapy. One of the applications was the VR "Snow World" where burn victims would glide down a snowy canyon, shooting snowballs at snowmen, etc., while their dressings were changed. It came out a year or two ago, I think, but I don't believe I have the issue any more. |
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