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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2006 : 19:10:14
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11510472/
Is there even a question that this was planned specifically because it was a no-brainer that W would get atleast 2 SCOTUS picks?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 20:01:08 [Permalink]
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Oh holy mother of Sagan...
from the article: quote:
"The bill, carrying a penalty of up to five years in prison, would make it a felony for doctors or others to perform abortions."
and quote:
"Opponents argued that the measure was too extreme because it would allow abortions only to save the lives of pregnant women."
If Roe v Wade gets overturned, my husband is getting a vasectomy a few years earlier than planned.
But seriously, this shit is scary as hell. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 22:07:42 [Permalink]
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This is very scary stuff. We're on the edge of a very slippery slope down the hill towards theocracy. At this point, my main hope is that, like so many SCOTUS nominees, the two new boys will not follow the expectations of the fellow who nominated them. It's certainly happened before, but I wouldn't put any money on my hope.
marfknox threatened: quote:
If Roe v Wade gets overturned, my husband is getting a vasectomy a few years earlier than planned.
[Crossing my legs.] I hope this is going to be a voluntary, and not a back-alley, vasectomy.  |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/22/2006 22:10:01 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 22:29:32 [Permalink]
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| I'm going to wait and see. Alito seems like he's got that not so hidden anti-abortion agenda, but I'm not yet convinced Roberts does. Roberts seems more likely to view the constitution a certain way but to believe keeping within the law is important. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2006 : 23:46:59 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal said:
quote:
I'm going to wait and see. Alito seems like he's got that not so hidden anti-abortion agenda, but I'm not yet convinced Roberts does. Roberts seems more likely to view the constitution a certain way but to believe keeping within the law is important.
The ruling in RvW is, I think, based on personal privacy rights.
The conservative judges, for a good while now, have leaned towards an interpretation of those laws that would not allow for RvW to stand.
RvW is a thing of the past.
Please note: This will only mean that individual states will determine abortion laws. Until the conservative congress passes anti-abortion legislation.
Ladies, your right to decide if you have a baby or not is in genuine risk here.
But hey, soccer moms were a major block of Bush voters, right?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 00:21:26 [Permalink]
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And the black cloak descends over the horizon. America takes its first step into a new Dark Age. Things will get much worse before they get better.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/23/2006 00:21:47 |
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 00:25:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Ladies, your right to decide if you have a baby or not is in genuine risk here.
Yes ladies, apparently the government is going to start forcing you to have sex without contraception. Dark times are upon us.
On a serious note - comparing a woman's right to (not) have a baby to a person's right to live is laughable. But wait!... I forgot! It's not a human life till 7 months!
... or was that 3 months? Or... 3 years? My 4 month old son IS kind of an inconvenience right at the moment...
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 00:56:33 [Permalink]
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verso snidely stated: quote:
Yes ladies, apparently the government is going to start forcing you to have sex without contraception. Dark times are upon us.
On a serious note - comparing a woman's right to (not) have a baby to a person's right to live is laughable. But wait!... I forgot! It's not a human life till 7 months!
... or was that 3 months? Or... 3 years? My 4 month old son IS kind of an inconvenience right at the moment...
I call "straw man." Nobody's about to advocate that you have a right to kill your son. Intellectual dishonesty.
Forcing a bigoted minority's religious views about when human life starts upon women who do not share them is, truely, un-American. It also makes this country's population look like narrow-minded, priest-ridden, medieval simpletons to people of more enlightened lands.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 03:07:10 [Permalink]
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'Tis but the begining, methinks. First RvW then prescription contraceptives followed by volentary vascetomy and tube ligation. Give the religo-faggots like Dobson and Perkins enough rope and they will do their best to hang us all.
At least now we will get to see Roberts true colors.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 06:49:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verso
quote:
Ladies, your right to decide if you have a baby or not is in genuine risk here.
Yes ladies, apparently the government is going to start forcing you to have sex without contraception. Dark times are upon us.
As has already been pointed out: Straw man argument for many reasons.
Contraceptives has been know to fail.
Lack of education about the use of contraceptions result in misapplication of said contraceptives.
A coworker of mine was an exchange student in New Mexico, and the stories she brought back... Let's just say I'm not surprised that the teen pregnancy rate is what it is.
Shit happens, and abortions are the preferred solution to some of that shit.
Proper and good education about sex reduces that chance of shit happening.
quote:
On a serious note - comparing a woman's right to (not) have a baby to a person's right to live is laughable.
But wait!... I forgot! It's not a human life till 7 months!
... or was that 3 months? Or... 3 years? My 4 month old son IS kind of an inconvenience right at the moment...
Indeed, an arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere.
Who are you to push your religious idea of when a zygote/foetus is a person on the rest of us?
For millennia, "the quickening" was the accepted point in time when the foetus was considered viable.
Whoops, the lady had a miss-carriage. Damn God for forcing an abortion upon her! Oh, I forgot, since God decided to abort the living person, He was Righteous is His decision. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 07:23:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
This is very scary stuff. We're on the edge of a very slippery slope down the hill towards theocracy. At this point, my main hope is that, like so many SCOTUS nominees, the two new boys will not follow the expectations of the fellow who nominated them. It's certainly happened before, but I wouldn't put any money on my hope.
marfknox threatened: quote:
If Roe v Wade gets overturned, my husband is getting a vasectomy a few years earlier than planned.
[Crossing my legs.] I hope this is going to be a voluntary, and not a back-alley, vasectomy.
She seems to like him. I doubt it will be with the Bobbitizer(tm).
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 09:15:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
She seems to like him. I doubt it will be with the Bobbitizer(tm).
(hehehe) Makes me glad I'm single, that does.....
But let's take this to it's logical conclusion: Let us say that the Supremos manage to overturn Wade v Roe. That is going to go over like a fart in the bathysphere because a staggering percentage -- I read somewhere: some 60 + percent -- of the public are in favor of it. If it gets overturned, I think that the Republicans will pay through the urethrae come election day.
The Republicans, and a lot of democrats, have demonstrated stupidity on a galatic scale, but are they really that stupid?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 09:22:58 [Permalink]
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HalfMooner piped up in melodramatic hyperbole:
quote:
I call "straw man." Nobody's about to advocate that you have a right to kill your son. Intellectual dishonesty.
Forcing a bigoted minority's religious views about when human life starts upon women who do not share them is, truely, un-American. It also makes this country's population look like narrow-minded, priest-ridden, medieval simpletons to people of more enlightened lands.
As Dr Mabuse pointed out for me, the line is arbitrary. If I want to kill my son, who are YOU to force your bigoted, unenlightened, narrow minded atheistic/agnostic/whatever-you-are views on me?
I say life starts at 10 years old.
Dr. Mabuse:
quote:
Indeed, an arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere.
Who are you to push your religious idea of when a zygote/foetus is a person on the rest of us?
For millennia, "the quickening" was the accepted point in time when the foetus was considered viable.
If your next door neighbor had a gun pointed at his 2 year old child's head, would you wave it off and walk away, saying to yourself "it's not MY business to push my beliefs of when life starts on him."?
No? You would do everything you could to save that child?
Well there you go, forcing your beliefs down his throat. You.. you.. you ZEALOT! YOU BIGOTED SIMPLETON!
quote:
For millennia, "the quickening" was the accepted point in time when the foetus was considered viable.
People thought the Earth was flat for millennia.
I guess it is. 
For the first time in 30 years, there is light on the horizon - we may be on the verge of leaving a very, very dark period in American history. Life may again be shown some dignity. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 10:08:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
verso:
For the first time in 30 years, there is light on the horizon - we may be on the verge of leaving a very, very dark period in American history. Life may again be shown some dignity.
Of course, abortions will still happen. Coat hangers, black market abortions performed by quacks in search of a buck will kill desperate woman, expensive trips to more civilized (and non theocratic) countries for those who can afford that sort of thing, a major increase in dead babies found in dumpsters, dangerous self performed abortion methods and drugs (food supplements and more sinister drugs no doubt) will all become common again… Dignity for life. I love the sound of that…
Ah yes, the good ol' days before abortion became a legal procedure done by health care professionals in clean facilities.
The good ol' days when a woman's body was not her own.
The good ol' days of unwanted pregnancy and the lives that were destroyed (both mother and child) forced to live with a mistake, or worse, the result of a rape for the rest of their lives.
These have been dark times. It will be good to get back to the good ol' days…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 10:17:48 [Permalink]
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| I am pro-life. Which is why I support animal's rights and environmentalist causes. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 10:34:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Of course, abortions will still happen. Coat hangers, black market abortions performed by quacks in search of a buck will kill desperate woman, expensive trips to more civilized (and non theocratic) countries for those who can afford that sort of thing, a major increase in dead babies found in dumpsters, dangerous self performed abortion methods and drugs (food supplements and more sinister drugs no doubt) will all become common again… Dignity for life. I love the sound of that…
Ahhh yes, the tired coat-hanger argument.
#1. From NARAL founder Bernard Nathanson on the subject:
quote:
How many deaths were we talking about when abortion was illegal? In N.A.R.A.L. we generally emphasized the drama of the individual case, not the mass statistics, but when we spoke of the latter it was always "5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year." I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the "morality" of the revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics. The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason which had to be done was permissible.
(Aborting America (New York: Doubleday, 1979), 193.)
The point - that entire argument is based ... exageration and outright lies.
#2 - "Let's make it safer to murder people, because it's dangerous to do it illegally"?!
quote:
The good ol' days when a woman's body was not her own.
What are you going on about? What does that have to do with taking an innocent life?
A womans body is her own - if she can't live with the possibility, she can keep her pants on.
quote:
The good ol' days of unwanted pregnancy and the lives that were destroyed (both mother and child) forced to live with a mistake, or worse, the result of a rape for the rest of their lives.
So let's just kill one of them. No problemo!
In case of rape? A hard situation indeed - but again, this is human life we're talking about. There are thousands of couples incapable of bearing children who are waiting to adopt.
quote:
These have been dark times. It will be good to get back to the good ol' days…
Now you're talking! |
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