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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2006 : 07:35:11 [Permalink]
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Bill talking about them gays and atheists again....
Where's that icon of the smiley face eating popcorn? |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 07:37:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Bill talking about them gays and atheists again....
Where's that icon of the smiley face eating popcorn?
Rather an obsession, is it not?
I wonder how he'd react to a gay atheist. Ouch! |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 07:45:57 [Permalink]
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Gay atheists don't go to hell. Their souls are roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris into the null void.
Prove me wrong. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 03/09/2006 07:48:03 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 07:55:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Still waiting for that non-arbitrary definition of when human life begins and the rational explanation of why it is non-arbitrary.
Dude three people responded to your request. Your complete dismissal of those responses and your regurgitated insistence that we answer the question again shows what kind of child like mentality you choose to bring to the conversation.
One more time. What is the point? Whatever definition I give you for the beginning of human life you will just move your arbitrary goal post and then bath yourself in your self glory of making some kind of point.
I never once told you that my definition would not be arbitrary in your eyes. I made the point that you like to point out that the abortion opponents position is all based on their subjective opinion of when life begins, but then you yourself totally fail to realize, or just refuse to acknowledge, that your whole position on the beginning of human life is every bit just as speculative (which you base off your atheistic preconceived beliefs) as any abortion opponent.
Next dude wants to know how I believe that I can force my arbitrary belief of the start of human life on the masses? I have to remind dude that the law does not protect my arbitrary point of view of when I believe human life begins and that, currently, the law protects his arbitrary point of view on the start of human life. I then mentioned that many in our state and federal governments are working on legally getting the law reversed back to pre roe vs. wade structure. Then the law would protect my arbitrary point of view of when life begins and it would be dude who is now forced to accept an arbitrary belief that he disagrees with.
I next bring up the fact that dude will rant and rave about how the country will come to a consensus on morals and law with a major majority when he discusses abortion because he believes the numbers are in his favor on this one, but then when it comes to gay marriage dude throws "majority rules" out the window faster then he would a burning coal dropped in his hand, when the numbers are not in his favor.
I also point out the fact that dude likes to ramble about arbitrary beliefs being forced on others when the topic is abortion, yet when it comes to funding the preaching of philosophical evolutionary dogma in the public schools, on a majority who do not expect the dogma using tax payer money on top of it, then dude is all for forcing his philosophical beliefs on those who do not share them, with tax payer dollars to boot.
Dude's obvious flip flops and refusal to make up his mind are so blatant that they would become border line comedy if the topics were not as serious as they are. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 07:59:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Still waiting for that non-arbitrary definition of when human life begins and the rational explanation of why it is non-arbitrary.
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/arbitrary.html
Arbirtary: “based solely on personal wishes, feelings, or perceptions, rather than on objective facts, reasons, or principles”.
I have said before:
“I take a conservative approach to ensure no baby will ever be aborted that is a human life. The point to declare human life and ensure no humans are killed can only be at conception. Before this the reproductive cells will not form a person on their own and most are not used at all and will die in a natural way.”
This position is not based soley on a whim, my personal wishes or feelings. It is based on the reasoning that nobody knows when life begins, so to ensure we don't kill any humans, we define human life at the point where it starts to grow into a human. And this is at conception. You may no agree Dude but it is not arbitrary.
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
This article is a little on the ranting side, but it does make some good points.
quote:
"Life begins at the moment of conception!" antiabortionists insist. But there is no "moment of conception." Biological science has revealed only a continuum of development, from separate egg and sperm cells to a newborn baby. What "moment" are the antiabortionists talking about? When the sperm cell reaches the corona radiate? When it reaches the zone pellucida? When egg activation occurs? When syngamy begins? When syngamy ends? When cell division starts? When implantation occurs?7 Antiabortionists fall silent.
Really, the whole argument about life beginning at conception is nothing but ignorance talking.
Dude muddying the waters with this post is not relevant since by the time a woman knows she is pregnant and may decide to have an abortion the process of conception has already happened.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 08:00:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
I also point out the fact that dude likes to ramble about arbitrary beliefs being forced on others when the topic is abortion, yet when it comes to funding the preaching of philosophical evolutionary dogma in the public schools, on a majority who do not expect the dogma using tax payer money on top of it, then dude is all for forcing his philosophical beliefs on those who do not share them, with tax payer dollars to boot.
Stop it Bill my ribs hurt! Pointing out "facts" and all, ROFLMAO.... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 08:02:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Gay atheists don't go to hell. Their souls are roundhouse kicked by Chuck Norris into the null void.
Too true.
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"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 08:42:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Bill Scott wrote: quote:
The major majority of voting Americans reject same sex marriage, so according to your rational that is the law of the land.
Yes, but the majority also support legal gay domestic partnerships, which mimic heterosexual civil unions in every way, and that is probably why that will become federal law before gay "marriage" does.
However, there is also a difference between religious and secular law. The problem with religious law is that the reasoning behind it is only accessible to those who have faith in whatever religion is in charge. But reasoning behind secular law is accessible to everyone - even if not everyone agrees. Religious folks who want to impose their moral rules that are purely based on beliefs are imposing their religion on everyone else. I'm sure most know that and have no problem with it what-so-ever.
But of course Dude and everyone else should fight for things being the way they honestly believe is best, regardless of what the majority thinks.
quote:
Yes, but the majority also support legal gay domestic partnerships, which mimic heterosexual civil unions in every way, and that is probably why that will become federal law before gay "marriage" does.
(bill) Fine, your prediction is noted. This does not change the fact one bit that dude flip flops his position depending on what side of the fence he lands on.
quote:
However, there is also a difference between religious and secular law. The problem with religious law is that the reasoning behind it is only accessible to those who have faith in whatever religion is in charge. But reasoning behind secular law is accessible to everyone - even if not everyone agrees. Religious folks who want to impose their moral rules that are purely based on beliefs are imposing their religion on everyone else. I'm sure most know that and have no problem with it what-so-ever.
(bill) "Religious" folks can only force their morals on you if the law backs this. If the religious, or the non-religious, do not care for the current law then there are avenues they must purse to get the law changed legally. Right now it is you, who are forcing your beliefs (religious, philosophical, worldview beliefs whatever you want to call it) on the masses, but you are currently backed by the law of our land. Religious folk have every right to run for office on a religious platform. If elected they have every right to use their worldview beliefs when making decisions as any atheist in office will use his/her worldview to make a decisions or pursue an issue when in office.
quote:
But of course Dude and everyone else should fight for things being the way they honestly believe is best, regardless of what the majority thinks.
(bill) I agree.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 08:45:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Bill wrote: quote:
More arbitrary dogma from the atheist camp I see. The have nothing on the origin of matter and the universe, nothing on how this matter in this universe then became life, and a bunch of justso stories mixed in with wild imagination for the origin of the species from the said life, which came from the matter that they have no idea how it got there to begin with. They will inject admitted speculation to trump well established theory just because and yet they profess to only dabble in science?
Argh! The amount of ignorance in this paragraph is astounding! Bill, the major proponents of Intelligent Design theory (Michael Behe and William Dembski) admit that macroevolution and common descent took place. The theory of evolution makes so definitive claims about how life got started from non-life. But that macroevolution and common descent happened is a scientific fact supported by oodles of evidence.
quote:
Argh! The amount of ignorance in this paragraph is astounding! Bill, the major proponents of Intelligent Design theory (Michael Behe and William Dembski) admit that macroevolution and common descent took place.
(bill) Good, then maybe they can point me to where all the millions and millions of fossils showing raptors/birds, wolf/whales and monkey/men that would be required for molecules to man evolution would be stored.
quote:
The theory of evolution makes no definitive claims about how life got started from non-life.
(bill) Based on all the speculation and total lack of any rational hypothesis offered by this forum on how matter becomes life in the atheistic universe I can see why not..
quote:
But that macroevolution and common descent happened is a scientific fact supported by oodles of evidence.
(bill) What evidence? The fossil record is an embarrassment to the macro crowd. The theories on speculative natural selection mechanics push the limits of probability to the breaking point. Not to mention they have no idea how the matter became life to begin with or where the matter even came from, yet they want to preach this philosophy in the public school under the guise of "science" even though a majority of the tax paying parents reject their arbitrary worldview out right.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 08:47:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Good, then maybe they can point me to where all the millions and millions of fossils showing raptors/birds, wolf/whales and monkey/men that would be required for molecules to man evolution would be stored.
And it just keeps coming! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 08:48:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
What evidence? The fossil record is an embarrassment to the macro crowd. The theories on speculative natural selection mechanics push the limits of probability to the breaking point. Not to mention they have no idea how the matter became life to begin with or where the matter even came from, yet they want to preach this philosophy in the public school under the guise of "science" even though a majority of the tax paying parents reject their arbitrary worldview out right.
What woo-woo site did you lift this from? The grammar is too correct... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:01:58 [Permalink]
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In another tiresome thread, Bill clearly demonstrated that he did not know what an atheist is. He was offered enlightenment, but it seems that he ignored it. Take him out of his tiny, B&W world and you've lost him.
So, in a hopeless gesture toward coherence, here's some helpful definitions.
Gay Marriage: The legal union of a same sex couple. The churches do not have to be involved in this and it would probably be a lot better if they were not.
Darwin's Theory of Evolution: Describes certain biological process' and has nothing to do with origins.
Origin of the universe: Cosmology, not evolution.
Origin of life: Abiogenesis, not evolution -- am I going too fast for you, Bill?
Deity: either an all-powerful, supernatural entity or a silly myth, depending upon which deity and who you happen to be talking to about it.
Atheist: One who does not worship any deity and refuses to recognize the existence of any of them on no more than some preacher's say-so.
Theist: One who embraces the concept of a deity, but none in particular.
Monotheist: One who embraces a single deity. Examples: the churches of Islam, Judaism, Christianity,.
Pantheist: One who embraces many or all deities, or invents new ones, and claims to be able to keep track.
Apostate: A backslid Christian, Jew or Muslim; one who changes or abandons dogma in the middle of the crusade and thus becomes a spiritual traitor.
Heretic: one who casts aspersions and doubts and even ridicule upon the local deity and by extension, that deity's churches. Also, the main ingredient for a medieval barbecue. Not necessarily an atheist.
Intelligent Design: A philosophy enjoying no empirical support. Also a pathetic attempt to sneak religion into science classes.
Book of Genesis: Interesting read and recommended for all who love a good fantasy.
South Dakota: The Coat Hanger State.
I do hope this helps....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:06:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
What evidence? The fossil record is an embarrassment to the macro crowd. The theories on speculative natural selection mechanics push the limits of probability to the breaking point. Not to mention they have no idea how the matter became life to begin with or where the matter even came from, yet they want to preach this philosophy in the public school under the guise of "science" even though a majority of the tax paying parents reject their arbitrary worldview out right.
What woo-woo site did you lift this from? The grammar is too correct...
That is all mine P. Thank you though as I have been attempting to work on my admitted poor grammer. Some of that comes from the fact that I never have taken a typing class of any kind. So if I try to go fast and don't proof read before the post who know's what might come out on your end? I am sure that I still make many mistakes but your comment encourages me to keep trying. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:10:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
What evidence? The fossil record is an embarrassment to the macro crowd. The theories on speculative natural selection mechanics push the limits of probability to the breaking point. Not to mention they have no idea how the matter became life to begin with or where the matter even came from, yet they want to preach this philosophy in the public school under the guise of "science" even though a majority of the tax paying parents reject their arbitrary worldview out right.
You have been led to the evidence in another thread. That you ignore it is your misfortune and none of my own.
Now, produce some evidence in favor of your pipe dream.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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