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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:18:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
bill:
What evidence? The fossil record is an embarrassment to the macro crowd. The theories on speculative natural selection mechanics push the limits of probability to the breaking point.
Bill, you really are a treasure. Do you do stand up? There really are mountains of evidence supporting what you say is an embarrassment to science. (Who is embarrassed? Please cite…) And your repeating this over and over will not make that evidence go away no matter how many times you say it. I know I am wasting my words pointing this out to you since you refuse to actually look at the evidence. Sigh…
A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:18:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
That is all mine P. Thank you though as I have been attempting to work on my admitted poor grammer.
Excellent, I'm glad you are improving (seriously)! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 09:43:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
That is all mine P. Thank you though as I have been attempting to work on my admitted poor grammer.
Excellent, I'm glad you are improving (seriously)!
Thanks again P. If for nothing else my posting here has given me a chance to work on that bad grammer...
Happy birthday to your daughter as I noticed she is now 4. I have a 2 year old and 4 month old, both girls, and they are just a pure treat to raise... (so far) |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 10:03:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Happy birthday to your daughter as I noticed she is now 4.
Thank you. She turned four at the end of February. Just took our first trip to Disney World - too much fun I tells ya. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 03/09/2006 10:04:25 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 10:07:46 [Permalink]
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Val said:
quote:
Ad hom, yes.
"You, and those who think like you, need to be institutionalized." - Dude
The connotation is that the person is wrong due to mental instability or damage.
Bullshit. It is a straight up insult. At no point is there any implication that they are wrong because they are retarded.
quote:
Tell me something. Why should they reconsider their positions because someone who could not refrain from personal attacks made statements refuting their own?
These guys reconsider their position? hahaha! Now you are seriously dreaming.
They are wrong.
They will be wrong no matter how you explain it to them. What makes you think they would consider changing their position even if I was nice to them?
quote:
Instead you have chosen to engage them on an emotional level on this subject.
Not exclusively, and so what? It is an emotionally charged subject.
Bill said:
quote:
I never once told you that my definition would not be arbitrary in your eyes. I made the point that you like to point out that the abortion opponents position is all based on their subjective opinion of when life begins, but then you yourself totally fail to realize, or just refuse to acknowledge, that your whole position on the beginning of human life is every bit just as speculative (which you base off your atheistic preconceived beliefs) as any abortion opponent.
Atheistic preconcieved beliefs? What are you babbling about?
I (and others) have told you, repeatedly, that ALL definitions of where life begins are arbitrary right up to the point where the fetus becomes viable outside the womb.
You, and your ilk, want (please note the use of the word want here, so that there is no need to respond to your retarded straw-man pondering how you can "force" you inane bullshit on others) to impose your arbitrary definition onto everyone else, as law.
Atleast you admit that your desire here is to see your arbitrary belief imposed on others as law.
quote:
I have to remind dude that the law does not protect my arbitrary point of view of when I believe human life begins and that, currently, the law protects his arbitrary point of view on the start of human life. I then mentioned that many in our state and federal governments are working on legally getting the law reversed back to pre roe vs. wade structure. Then the law would protect my arbitrary point of view of when life begins and it would be dude who is now forced to accept an arbitrary belief that he disagrees with.
The difference, since you are obviously incapable of comprehending it, is that RvW doesn't impose anything on anyone. You are fully free to NOT have an abortion. Moron.
Robb said:
quote:
This position is not based soley on a whim, my personal wishes or feelings. It is based on the reasoning that nobody knows when life begins, so to ensu |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:40:10 [Permalink]
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Dude:
Honestly, you come across as foaming at the mouth.
quote:
The difference, since you are obviously incapable of comprehending it, is that RvW doesn't impose anything on anyone. You are fully free to NOT have an abortion. Moron.
Nope. See dude, that is true with your premise that a fertilized egg is not human. With our premise, the fertilized egg is a person, and therefore RvW does impose something on someone. It imposes death on a human.
You keep trying to understand our logic with your premise. Of course it won't make sense to you.
You keep asking us to define when personhood begins. When does the embryo become a person with legal rights?
But why should we have to explain to you? You might say - "the burden of proof is on you, because YOU are trying to force your believe on women." But that's with your presmises.
With MY premise, the burden of proof is on you, because you are trying to force your beliefs on the unborn child.
Yes, I do have reasoning as to why I believe life starts at conception (not upon implantation - upon fertilization). But as far as I'm concerned, you need to be telling me why life doesn't start at conception.
You mentioned that most fertilized eggs are disposed of by the woman's body. How is that relevant? People die. They die within 1 day of fertilization all the way to 100+ years. That doesn't make me feel any better about killing them.
Dude - I am willing to continue this discussion civily, but if you can't keep your emotions out of it, then I don't want to waste the time.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:46:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Val said:
quote:
Ad hom, yes.
"You, and those who think like you, need to be institutionalized." - Dude
The connotation is that the person is wrong due to mental instability or damage.
Bullshit. It is a straight up insult. At no point is there any implication that they are wrong because they are retarded.
I'm not conceeding the point on ad hom, but if it is truely a straight up insult, then why fucking use it? What does it add to the discussion? What does it prove? What function does it fulfill? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 11:55:54 [Permalink]
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Dude Wrote:quote:
Not arbitrary? You are just pure comedy. Your protestation that is isn't arbitrary doesn't make it so Robb.
I think my reasoning fits with the definition I gave for arbitrary that you did not quote with your comments. Why don't you state why my reasoning does not fit with the definition I gave for arbitrary? Then we can have a discussion.
Dude Wrote:
quote:
What is it you guys don't get about this? How is it you don't understand that when you want to impose restrictions on people (atleast in this country) that you need a non-arbitrary reason and a rational defense for it?
Truly you have a dizzying intelect. I can't wait until you get going.
Dude Wrote:
quote:
If you were truly upset with anything that caused an abortion after "conception" (going with the fertilization of the egg as "conception", because I think that is what you mean when you say it), then you'd have to be mightily pissed off with the function of the female body, as most fertilized eggs never make it. The female body, in your terms, is the greatest killer of unborn children ever.
Where is the outrage?
I guess we should sterilize all the women so they stop killing babies! (Just to let you know I am just kidding before you rant about how I hate women.)
Edited to clarify who I was quoting. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
| Edited by - Robb on 03/09/2006 12:03:25 |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:05:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Robb
I guess we should sterilize all the women so they stop killing babies! (Just to let you know I am just kidding before you rant about how I hate women.)
Why not? If you're willing to impose your beliefs on what we all know to be a human being, then why not force women to be sterilized?
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:15:05 [Permalink]
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| Then put all monies being used by fertily clinics, protesters, etc., into developing the artificial womb. That way, we can have complete control over the situation and there will be no more murders by anyone! ;-) |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 03/09/2006 12:15:42 |
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verso
Skeptic Friend
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:28:07 [Permalink]
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Wendy:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Robb
I guess we should sterilize all the women so they stop killing babies! (Just to let you know I am just kidding before you rant about how I hate women.)
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Why not? If you're willing to impose your beliefs on what we all know to be a human being, then why not force women to be sterilized?
Don't be obtuse. You're comparing apples to oranges.
You're comparing the right of a woman to not suffer a pregnancy to the right of a human to live.
Edit: clarification |
| Edited by - verso on 03/09/2006 12:29:40 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:28:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Then put all monies being used by fertily clinics, protesters, etc., into developing the artificial womb. That way, we can have complete control over the situation and there will be no more murders by anyone! ;-)
And then, don't allow people to raise their own children! Let the government do it, so we can all control what children do and see.
[/sci-fi junkie] |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:43:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
quote:
Originally posted by Robb
I guess we should sterilize all the women so they stop killing babies! (Just to let you know I am just kidding before you rant about how I hate women.)
Why not? If you're willing to impose your beliefs on what we all know to be a human being, then why not force women to be sterilized?
Forced abortions or forced sterilization are imposed beliefs on others. Outlawing abortion is no more imposing beliefs on others then it is to say outlawing murder is a forced belief imposed on the one who would commit a murder. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:51:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Happy birthday to your daughter as I noticed she is now 4.
Thank you. She turned four at the end of February. Just took our first trip to Disney World - too much fun I tells ya.
I am sure she will remember her first time at DW for some time to come  |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 12:57:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by verso
Don't be obtuse. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Not at all. You're willing to force a woman to give up control over her own body. At least be consistent.
quote:
Originally posted by verso
You're comparing the right of a woman to not suffer a pregnancy to the right of a human to live.
The hell I am!!! The right not to suffer a pregnancy?! That's what you think this is about? The right not to spend a few months with clothes that don't fit and bloated ankles? You must be kidding.
I have three children and two step-children. I understand more than most the responsibility that comes with raising a child. It is, in my opinion, the biggest commitment a person can make. If a woman is unwilling or unable to make that commitment for whatever reason she should (again, in my opinion) have the right to terminate the pregnancy before it results in an unwanted child. |
Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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| Edited by - Wendy on 03/09/2006 13:00:38 |
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