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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 03/13/2006 : 23:22:53
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The latest from Factcheck.org:
"An ad released by a liberal group calling themselves DefCon accuses three well-known Christian conservatives of being "knee deep" in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal. The ad is partly true: there is well-publicized evidence supporting the claims about political operative Ralph Reed and evangelist Lou Sheldon. However, James Dobson denies ever having met Abramoff, saying 'I probably couldn't pick him out of a line-up.' And one of DefCon's advisers concedes 'There is no proof and I doubt there will ever be any proof that Dobson consciously colluded with Abramoff.'
"Their ad's claim about Dobson rests on Dobson taking anti-gambling positions that stood to benefit Abramoff clients. That's an attempt to prove guilt through mere association, a classic example of false logic."
Full analysis here: http://www.factcheck.org/article379.html
Why do some liberals have to make the rest of us look like dipshits?
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 02:29:08 [Permalink]
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Not entirely without substance I think, marf. This has been floating around the web for some weeks. Here's Wikipedia's take on it: quote:
Ralph Reed's and James Dobson's denials
From a television interview conducted on October 19, 2005 in Atlanta
Ralph E. Reed, Jr. said he asked Abramoff's firm for assurances his pay would not be in gambling dollars. "And I was provided with those assurances by the law firm," Reed said. "If we were paid with funds that derived from gambling activity, then it was contrary to my understanding and the assurances that I received."[25]
From the Chicago Tribune on January 5, 2006,
Abramoff recruited prominent Christian conservatives James Dobson and Ralph Reed to campaign against the Jena Band's casino on the grounds it would expand gambling, even though Abramoff's clients were casinos. Dobson and Reed have said they were duped [26] though their stories don't add up.[27]
A scant couple of paragraphs from a long, interesting and sordid story. I think that this has yet a long way to go and it's a little soonish to pass judgements -- which will quell not even the least of loud speculations.
At the moment, it appears that Dobson and Reed, a couple of scoundrels to start with in my opinion, were more cat's paws in Abramoff's casino dealings with the tribes than much of anything else. I think a little more time will sort out the facts of the matter, like who took how much money from whom and toward what end.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 05:50:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
... However, James Dobson denies ever having met Abramoff, saying 'I probably couldn't pick him out of a line-up.' And one of DefCon's advisers concedes 'There is no proof and I doubt there will ever be any proof that Dobson consciously colluded with Abramoff.'
And 2 months ago
quote:
"The president does not know him, nor does the president ever recall meeting him," White House spokesman Scott McCellan said Sunday.
Seems to be a lot of people distancing themselves from Mr.Abramoff. I'm with filthy, time will tell who is telling the truth and who is just full of  . |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 07:32:24 [Permalink]
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filthy wrote: quote:
At the moment, it appears that Dobson and Reed, a couple of scoundrels to start with in my opinion, were more cat's paws in Abramoff's casino dealings with the tribes than much of anything else. I think a little more time will sort out the facts of the matter, like who took how much money from whom and toward what end.
moakley wrote: quote:
I'm with filthy, time will tell who is telling the truth and who is just full of (shit).
So you both have your suspicions and zero evidence. The factcheck article stands. DefCon was dishonest and unethical with that ad. Us saying we're suspicious of Dobson in conversations is one thing. Putting out an ad that publically denounces him is another. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 08:05:33 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't go so far as to say zero evidence. As I said, this has been rattling around for weeks. quote:
Focus on the Family's Minnery contradicted himself regarding group's involvement with Abramoff associate Reed in casino scheme
Summary: On the February 17 broadcast of his radio program, Focus on the Family president James C. Dobson and Tom Minnery, the organization's vice president of public policy, sought to fend off questions arising from reports of their alleged collusion with convicted felon and former gambling industry lobbyist Jack Abramoff in a scheme to shut down competition to his clients' casinos. While both Dobson and Minnery deny working with Abramoff, email exchanges between Abramoff and associates Ralph Reed and Michael Scanlon appear to contradict Dobson and Minnery's claim that Focus on the Family's activities in opposition to the expansion of a Louisiana casino had nothing to do with requests from Abramoff or Reed.
I've never heard of this DefCon outfit. WTF, just another blog amongst -- how many?
And never forget: Liberals have been known to lie, too..... I will wait and see.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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