|
|
|
Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2006 : 09:10:27
|
http://www.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/03/14/ford.boycott.reut/index.html
quote:
A conservative Christian group has launched a boycott of Ford Motor Co., saying the automaker had reneged on a pledge to drop its advertising in gay publications and support of gay rights groups.
The Tupelo, Mississippi-based American Family Association first threatened a boycott in May, but suspended the move in June after several Ford dealers stepped in to broker a settlement.
In December, Ford decided to pull advertising for its Jaguar and Land Rover luxury brands from gay publications, but then reversed course after coming under fire from gay-rights activists for having conceded to pressure from the AFA.
Hopefully Ford will stay the course, but if sales drop to far for them becuase of this they may have to give in to the AFA.
|
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2006 : 09:45:02 [Permalink]
|
Well, most fundies are also big time patriots who like to buy American cars, and there aren't a lot of choices left if they boycott Ford.
At least that is my understanding. I remember getting my VW's oil changed in the small rural town my hubby grew up in, and the guys at the shop opened my hood and one blurted out, "What the fuck?" It was pretty amusing. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
 |
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 10:00:07 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Well, most fundies are also big time patriots who like to buy American cars, and there aren't a lot of choices left if they boycott Ford.
At least that is my understanding. I remember getting my VW's oil changed in the small rural town my hubby grew up in, and the guys at the shop opened my hood and one blurted out, "What the fuck?" It was pretty amusing.
quote:
Well, most fundies are also big time patriots who like to buy American cars, and there aren't a lot of choices left if they boycott Ford.
Shoot those days are long gone. They make Honda and Toyota out the yin-yang right here in the states while Ford puts Mazda parts on their cars.
quote:
At least that is my understanding. I remember getting my VW's oil changed in the small rural town my hubby grew up in, and the guys at the shop opened my hood and one blurted out, "What the fuck?" It was pretty amusing.
Small rural town is the key here. You can get your "import" car worked on at anytime in any moderate sized city. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
geo berri
New Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 10:10:52 [Permalink]
|
When I first heard this, it really put a burr in my saddle. I was very dissapointed in Ford for caving in to a pack of fundies. I was proud that they reversed their decision. The xian movement in this country wonders why people are opposed to their forced ideology. They are feeling picked on and shunned but in reality the majority, in the US anyway, are tired of being pushed around by them and we are standing up for what is right and not what is popular or forced on us. This isn't going over well.
On the other hand xians have every right to exercise their right to protest. They don't have the right to infringe on the rights of others whether it's gays, abortion, public schools, funerals or ford motor co. |
Throw open the windows of your life and let the winds of knowledge blow through your mind, geo |
| Edited by - geo berri on 03/14/2006 10:12:14 |
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 10:36:00 [Permalink]
|
| Ford's already in enough trouble - they're losing market quite fast to Toyota, Honda, etc. I'd guess the fundies are the last thing in their minds, right now... though they can and will be a sore spot. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
skepticality
Skeptic Friend
USA
105 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 11:01:42 [Permalink]
|
| I have never heard anyone ever pay attention to a boycott like this when it comes to something like a car... maybe a laundry soap, or a soda, or something like that... but, I presume that something like this won't be much effect on a company like Ford. Especially considering the other problems they seem to have these days. :| |
Derek Colanduno
host - skepticality
http://www.skepticality.com/ |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 14:03:45 [Permalink]
|
They tried this with Microsoft. It got a reaction and then the backlash to the reaction caused Gates to reverse course back again.
(edited for clarity) |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/15/2006 01:42:12 |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 14:04:58 [Permalink]
|
| Maybe these guys are growing the gay issue to replace the abortion issue they think will leave a void if Roe is overturned? |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 14:26:20 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Ford's already in enough trouble - they're losing market quite fast to Toyota, Honda, etc. I'd guess the fundies are the last thing in their minds, right now... though they can and will be a sore spot.
Fords biggest problem has nothing to do with protests for gays or no gays. Fords biggest problem, but not their only one, is the UAW work force used to manufacture the Ford car. Same for GM. $1200 from every new car goes straight into funding the health care of current and retired UAW workers who seem to get a better health care and retirment package then congress does. Mean while Honda and Toyota make their cars right here in the same US of A that Ford and GM do only Honda and Toyota use non UAW workes. They still pay a very fair wage but it is not an insane wage with an insane benefit package like what the UAW workers get to put a nut on a bolt for GM or Ford.
If GM and/or Ford could bust the union and place an add in the Detroit free press for assembly workers stating at $14/15 per hour with modest health care package they would have a line around the block with potential workers and would now be on a much more level field with Honda and Toyota which of course would allow them to be much more compedative with their non-UAW rivals.
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 15:05:39 [Permalink]
|
Union-busting, eh? Great idea! We can go back to this:
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 15:24:41 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Ford's already in enough trouble - they're losing market quite fast to Toyota, Honda, etc. I'd guess the fundies are the last thing in their minds, right now... though they can and will be a sore spot.
Fords biggest problem has nothing to do with protests for gays or no gays. Fords biggest problem, but not their only one, is the UAW work force used to manufacture the Ford car. Same for GM. $1200 from every new car goes straight into funding the health care of current and retired UAW workers who seem to get a better health care and retirment package then congress does. Mean while Honda and Toyota make their cars right here in the same US of A that Ford and GM do only Honda and Toyota use non UAW workes. They still pay a very fair wage but it is not an insane wage with an insane benefit package like what the UAW workers get to put a nut on a bolt for GM or Ford.
If GM and/or Ford could bust the union and place an add in the Detroit free press for assembly workers stating at $14/15 per hour with modest health care package they would have a line around the block with potential workers and would now be on a much more level field with Honda and Toyota which of course would allow them to be much more compedative with their non-UAW rivals.
Well, I think there is more to Ford's problems then Union woes, but at that price it sure looks like a big part of it. Do you have a source for that number?
I have mix feelings about unions. My dad worked for one his whole carier and it never let him down, nor did he ever go on strike. Whatever they couldn't get in the first contract talks they would try again next time, and they usally got it then. My dad's union worked on the idea it is better to have them working then on strike and unemployed. Worked real well to, unlike other unions that seam to strike ever other contract.
There are some unions out there that are just to greedy IMO. They need to realize that sometimes the best intrest of the worker is also the best intrest of the company (if it is a good company). There is only so far that you can squeeze a company for benifits and wages and keep it in business. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 16:31:25 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Ford's already in enough trouble - they're losing market quite fast to Toyota, Honda, etc. I'd guess the fundies are the last thing in their minds, right now... though they can and will be a sore spot.
Fords biggest problem has nothing to do with protests for gays or no gays. Fords biggest problem, but not their only one, is the UAW work force used to manufacture the Ford car. Same for GM. $1200 from every new car goes straight into funding the health care of current and retired UAW workers who seem to get a better health care and retirment package then congress does. Mean while Honda and Toyota make their cars right here in the same US of A that Ford and GM do only Honda and Toyota use non UAW workes. They still pay a very fair wage but it is not an insane wage with an insane benefit package like what the UAW workers get to put a nut on a bolt for GM or Ford.
If GM and/or Ford could bust the union and place an add in the Detroit free press for assembly workers stating at $14/15 per hour with modest health care package they would have a line around the block with potential workers and would now be on a much more level field with Honda and Toyota which of course would allow them to be much more compedative with their non-UAW rivals.
I know. Plus the competition from other countries and various problems in other countries - remember, Ford ain't limited to US and frankly, their cars are not nearly as popular overseas to my little piece of Hell as Honda and Toyota (which, by the way, look much better). Not even their trucks sell anymore. Same with GM.
Aye, I do believe christian fundamentalists are the last thing in their minds right now. Or should be, anyway. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 18:39:05 [Permalink]
|
Bill wrote" quote:
Small rural town is the key here. You can get your "import" car worked on at anytime in any moderate sized city.
That doesn't nullify my point since most people who live in moderate sized or larger cities are not fundies and thus wouldn't be involved in any boycott of Ford. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 18:42:18 [Permalink]
|
beskeptical wrote: quote:
Maybe these guys are growing the gay issue to replace the abortion issue they think will leave a void if Roe is overturned?
Well, first of all, it is highly questionable that abortion as an issue is just going to go away. Even if Roe v Wade is overturned, it is a whole other jump to ban abortion nationwide. Also, support of many gay rights issues has been increasing, such as legal domestic partnership which currently has a slight majority of support. Plus, unlike the unborn, gays themselves are ardently fighting for their rights. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 18:45:34 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Ford's already in enough trouble - they're losing market quite fast to Toyota, Honda, etc. I'd guess the fundies are the last thing in their minds, right now... though they can and will be a sore spot.
Fords biggest problem has nothing to do with protests for gays or no gays. Fords biggest problem, but not their only one, is the UAW work force used to manufacture the Ford car. Same for GM. $1200 from every new car goes straight into funding the health care of current and retired UAW workers who seem to get a better health care and retirment package then congress does. Mean while Honda and Toyota make their cars right here in the same US of A that Ford and GM do only Honda and Toyota use non UAW workes. They still pay a very fair wage but it is not an insane wage with an insane benefit package like what the UAW workers get to put a nut on a bolt for GM or Ford.
If GM and/or Ford could bust the union and place an add in the Detroit free press for assembly workers stating at $14/15 per hour with modest health care package they would have a line around the block with potential workers and would now be on a much more level field with Honda and Toyota which of course would allow them to be much more compedative with their non-UAW rivals.
Well, I think there is more to Ford's problems then Union woes, but at that price it sure looks like a big part of it. Do you have a source for that number?
I have mix feelings about unions. My dad worked for one his whole carier and it never let him down, nor did he ever go on strike. Whatever they couldn't get in the first contract talks they would try again next time, and they usally got it then. My dad's union worked on the idea it is better to have them working then on strike and unemployed. Worked real well to, unlike other unions that seam to strike ever other contract.
There are some unions out there that are just to greedy IMO. They need to realize that sometimes the best intrest of the worker is also the best intrest of the company (if it is a good company). There is only so far that you can squeeze a company for benifits and wages and keep it in business.
quote:
Do you have a source for that number?
It was worse then I thought $1600/car
"The automaker expects to spend $5.6 billion -- about $1,600 a vehicle -- on health care this year, far more than Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co. and other foreign rivals."
here
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/24/A01-127736.htm
Worse then that the UAW has "job pools" where the layed off worker can collect union wages from GM for years without even working. I'll find that one next... And people wonder why they struggle against Toyota? Let Toyota carry the weight of the UAW on their shoulders and watch profits drop like a rock in one year. Developing...
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2006 : 18:47:09 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Bill wrote" quote:
Small rural town is the key here. You can get your "import" car worked on at anytime in any moderate sized city.
That doesn't nullify my point since most people who live in moderate sized or larger cities are not fundies and thus wouldn't be involved in any boycott of Ford.
If they can not change the oil in a VW then they are not mechanics. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
