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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2006 : 11:14:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
They 'deserve' to be punished because their actions are destabilising to society. Whether the they had any real choice in bringing down the towers or blowing themselves up and thus truly 'deserve' punishment is another matter, but they must be dealt with in any case.
Again, that makes no sense at all.
As to democracy, where do you find that? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 11:31:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
They 'deserve' to be punished because their actions are destabilising to society. Whether the they had any real choice in bringing down the towers or blowing themselves up and thus truly 'deserve' punishment is another matter, but they must be dealt with in any case.
Again, that makes no sense at all.
Could you elaborate? What do you find confusing here? Do you believe we should simply sit by and allow civilization to crumble?
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As to democracy, where do you find that?
Surely you've heard of democracy. It really does exist I didn't make it up, honest.  |
| Edited by - dv82matt on 04/27/2006 11:32:20 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 11:51:05 [Permalink]
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Well, explain why "deserve" means anything and has anything to do with anything. What is best for society? Education, health care, proper nutrition, these are things that stop crime. War, poverty, ignorance, these are things that increase crime. Which are we doing?
Again. Most of the world was against this war. Most of the world would have done something different with Afghanistan. What about this is democracy? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/27/2006 11:53:31 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 11:56:40 [Permalink]
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Education, health care and proper nutrition could be veiwed as the catalyst for the most destructive force even know by man, the US Economy.
Just a little perspective shift, no need to expand on this topic. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 12:31:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Well, explain why "deserve" means anything and has anything to do with anything.
Well I put the word 'deserve' in quotes for a reason. I was trying to indicate that while they may or may not deserve to be punished in a moral sense, they must be dealt with harshly nonetheless.
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What is best for society? Education, health care, proper nutrition, these are things that stop crime. War, poverty, ignorance, these are things that increase crime. Which are we doing?
You're being overly simplistic. War is sometimes an unfortuanate nessessity.
Here's a few more oversimplifications. Most terrorists are fairly well educated, therefore education is the root terrorism. Dead men commit no crimes, therefore war reduces crime.
The US probably should give education, health care, proper nutrition and such positive things a higher priority though, so I agree with you there.
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Again. Most of the world was against this war. Most of the world would have done something different with Afghanistan. What about this is democracy?
Most of the world doesn't get to vote in American elections. Jeeze Gorgo, yes democracy is limited to the country or jusridiction in which it exists. That doesn't make it 'not a democracy' it just limits its scope. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 12:50:08 [Permalink]
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A little different tack for the thread but relevant, nonetheless. Daniel Ellsberg and John Dean of the Pentagon Papers events were interviewed on Democracy Now this morning. They both agreed it was anti-American and unpatriotic for anyone NOT TO LEAK information when it was on par with Nixon's or Bush's actions putting themselves above the law. Both Presidents have put and are putting (respectively) our whole democracy at grave risk. It only makes sense to defend the country by disclosing such democratic and constitutional abuses.
Thursday, April 27th, 2006, Nixon White House Counsel John Dean and Pentagon Papers Leaker Daniel Ellsberg on Watergate and the Abuse of Presidential Power from Nixon to Bush. I think this is something my kid should have had as a reading assignment in his required middle school curriculum on the American Constitution.
I started a new thread on this instead. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 04/27/2006 13:00:31 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 12:55:54 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the link, Beskeptigal.
Matt, most of the U.S. was against the war, and the elected leaders of Europe had to ignore their populations in order to satisfy Bush's need for murder.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 13:14:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Matt, most of the U.S. was against the war, and the elected leaders of Europe had to ignore their populations in order to satisfy Bush's need for murder.
Granted much of the US population was against the war. I'm not sure that it was a majority, as you indicate though, I seem to recall there being significant domestic support for the war at the time when the decision to go to war in Iraq was made.
At any rate a democracy doesn't guarantee that leaders will never do anything unpopular, all it guarantees is that the people will have a chance to kick them out next election. |
| Edited by - dv82matt on 04/27/2006 13:39:19 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 15:05:50 [Permalink]
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| Kick them out and get someone else that's picked for you to choose that will do the same thing. They all do it. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 15:43:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
Kick them out and get someone else that's picked for you to choose that will do the same thing. They all do it.
Yeah, well as they say, 'democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other ones'. I ripped that from someone's signature here.
Anyway it's just the nature of the beast I think. Democracy can limit corruption, violence, and tyranny but it can't eliminate them completely.
Incidentially, there are real differences between the parties and their agendas. Granted you may not be completely satisfied with any of them, but they are not actually identical. I often find that I must vote for the party I hate least, since I don't actually agree with any of them on every issue.
Politicians also have an irritating habit of telling us what we want to hear rather than the truth. This further muddies the water but broken promises seem to be an inescapable fact of life in the political arena. |
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