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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2001 : 12:18:53
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Poll Question:
In your experience, who is it that holds individual freedoms and liberties in higher esteem:
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Poll Status:
Locked »» |
Total Votes: 0 counted »» |
Last Vote:
never |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 12:28:46 [Permalink]
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I chose the combination of 1 and 2. This is not necessarily because these groups are naturally better lovers of freedom but because they are minority groups and more prone to discrimination. I think this leads to a better awareness of the value of liberty.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 12:33:01 [Permalink]
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I'm with @tomic.
My kids still love me. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 12:58:45 [Permalink]
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Me too.
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 15:17:57 [Permalink]
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I, um, fourth that.
Adventure? Excitement? A Jedi craves not these things. - Silent Bob |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 15:48:29 [Permalink]
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It has been my experience that those who feel most in danger of losing their liberties (those most discriminated against) are those who are most aware of the tenuous nature of liberty. I was just curious if this were the view of others. IOW, I agree with @tomic.
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 18:41:06 [Permalink]
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To 1 and 2, you can add a few other groups, such as consumers of Internet pornography and far right-wing militia groups.
The same pattern applies: those who are taking most advantage of their liberties are willing to go the farthest to defend them. Rather ironic in the case of the militias, though -- they'll defend their rights to stockpile weapons that they want to use to deprive minorities of their rights.
I'm not kidding about the porn hounds... they'll fight tooth and nail to keep the net unfettered.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 19:39:08 [Permalink]
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I think that the recent terrorist attacks and the Patroit Act have all but proved that one and two value individual freedoms the most.
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 20:26:50 [Permalink]
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I think this question possibly should have been worded differently because in its current form it's aimed at westerners. Perhaps instead of Christian it should be Dominant Religion or something like that because in some parts of the world "other faiths" are the majority.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 20:29:33 [Permalink]
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Most of the people that follow organised religion have a lot less freedom than their counterparts who do not.
We are not bounded by moral laws or "commandments" that govern the way we should behave. Luckily, most people I know use common sense before taking any action, things like "Thou shall not steal" are obvious. However in more grey areas, common sense gives you more freedom than trying to search the scriptures for any possible action that can be taken.
Organised religion gives people an opportunity not to think for themselves, and if is the way that you want to be, then civil liberties are not really that important to you. You will be happy to be told the way to think and behave.
Luckily, I know in my self what is wrong and right and I take action accordingly. I live in a democracy and I can believe or act how I want as long as I don't hurt the feelings of others.
"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties." --- Shooter McGavin |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 22:24:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think this question possibly should have been worded differently because in its current form it's aimed at westerners. Perhaps instead of Christian it should be Dominant Religion or something like that because in some parts of the world "other faiths" are the majority.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Um, actually no. This is specifically geared toward some of the issues regarding civil liberties in the US, where the majority of the populace are mainstream xians.
I pulled the concept from another thread, where I had made this observation. It's under the Bush nominates biblical law activist.
I will agree that in general, the majority of those who are the minority in a given situation would be more cognizant of their rights and privledges. However, I suppose I was trying to gauge how we see the US populace on this issue. Particularly because we are facing a potential return to the Alien and Sedition Acts and McCarthyism. I was thoroughly surprised at how many American adults there are who are unaware of either the document or the practices of the McCarthy hearings. So I was and am referring to the US and the US alone here.
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2001 : 22:55:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
I was just curious if this were the view of others. IOW, I agree with @tomic.
Sorry, I don't agree with @. My view is that there are a lot of Democrats (but Republicans too) who are atheists, and my friends you know who you are, therefore I don't think they want 'individual freedoms' because they are all a bunch of socialist,(that is if you are talking about USA politics).
I voted for the Wiccans, etc. They are probably more misunderstood and looked down on then non-religious people. Atheist are at least intelligent enough to debate and or fit in to society if they don't want to be persicuted, but seems to me those oddball, off center wacko 'religions' want to flaunt being different so they need more esteme for freedom.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2001 : 04:56:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
To 1 and 2, you can add a few other groups, such as consumers of Internet pornography and far right-wing militia groups.
The same pattern applies: those who are taking most advantage of their liberties are willing to go the farthest to defend them. Rather ironic in the case of the militias, though -- they'll defend their rights to stockpile weapons that they want to use to deprive minorities of their rights.
I'm not kidding about the porn hounds... they'll fight tooth and nail to keep the net unfettered.
To this I would add the sad observation that one reason that most individuals (mainstream? whatever; please accept an imprecise definition) do not defend their liberties and do not appreciate their liberties because they do not understand them or recognize them.
We need to have Porn Hounds Appreciation Day. Or week. Yeah, a week.
My kids still love me. |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2001 : 21:26:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
We need to have Porn Hounds Appreciation Day. Or week. Yeah, a week.
How about a month?  Yeah, a monh should definitely do it... 
"Necessity may be the mother of invention, but laziness is usually the father." -Bailey's First Law |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2001 : 19:20:13 [Permalink]
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Only INDIVIDUALS care about individual freedoms. Everybody else looks for ways to silence everybody else who disagrees with him/her/it. (I used *it* for the brainless ones who want to silence INDIVIDUALS.
Therefore, I selected Atheists, Agnostics, Free Thinkers, and Humanitarians (just so long as they are individuals and not just members of cults created by anti-individuals.
ljbrs   
"The only real way to reconcile science and religion is to set up something that is not science and something that is not religion." (H.L. Mencken) |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2001 : 22:51:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Only INDIVIDUALS care about individual freedoms. Everybody else looks for ways to silence everybody else who disagrees with him/her/it.
ljbrs
the wiccans, new agers etc hold beliefs that are every bit as silly and rediculous as prot or muslim fundamentalism. the primary appeal of the wiccan religion is the opportunity to participate in frequent orgies with people who couldent get laid at society for creative anacronism functions. lots of nudity lots of sex-fun religion but otherwise irrational.
comrade billyboy |
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Topic Locked
