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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 08/15/2006 : 20:42:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Original_Intent:
Draft someone else.
Okay, find me the politician who hasn't done or said something stupid to cover his or her own ass. Boy do you hold a grudge...
Not about what he said, but what he did and the fact he still hasn't owned up to it. So yes, I have a grudge with him (other then that he is a politician).
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The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 00:50:01 [Permalink]
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That (soliciting campaign contributions from the White House premises) does seem to have been be a violation of law. And Al Gore certainly did put his foot in his mouth, nine or ten years ago, after he owned up to the indiscretion.
But by comparison, we now have a number of potential Democratic presidential candidates who have put their own feet in their mouths much more recently, and a Republican gang in the White House, Congress, and the Supreme Court, who are constantly putting their feet into our mouths, by way of kicking us there.
As I think I may have mentioned recently, when Al Gore Sr. first ran for Senate in Tennessee, his opponent used the slogan: "Thinking Feller? Vote McKellar." Al Gore Sr. responded with the slogan: "Think Some More – Vote for Gore," and won. Well, I've thought some more, and I will vote for (Junior) Gore.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 01:08:58 [Permalink]
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O.I. said:
quote:
Not about what he said, but what he did and the fact he still hasn't owned up to it.
So, I'm guessing that you really can't stand the current president? With all the laws he has violated, and no one even willing to call him to acount for his crimes, that must surely piss you off.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 06:40:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
O.I. said:
quote:
Not about what he said, but what he did and the fact he still hasn't owned up to it.
So, I'm guessing that you really can't stand the current president? With all the laws he has violated, and no one even willing to call him to acount for his crimes, that must surely piss you off.
What, when I criticize one person, I have to criticie everyone? Will you do the same?
There has not been a president in my lifetime that I am really proud of. Yes Bush pisses me off, but so did Clinton and his cronies......
It is sad when we can no longer argue which president is better, but which was worse..... |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 07:13:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Original_Intent:
There has not been a president in my lifetime that I am really proud of. Yes Bush pisses me off, but so did Clinton and his cronies......
It is sad when we can no longer argue which president is better, but which was worse.....
Well, since Clinton actually left the country in pretty good shape and Bush has been a total disaster, I am comfortable with saying that Clinton was a better president than Bush is, by far. You can frame it anyway you want to. That's up to you.
So where is this paragon of virtue that we should be considering?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 09:53:23 [Permalink]
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Lets all agree that after a certian level, say Congressman, politicans are slimy rat-bastards that bend the truth over and have their way with it.
Now, lets look at the records of how badly it has hurt the country by them doing it.
Have to take them on a case by case basis.
During my lifetime there have been big political gaffes and small. As long as the crimes are minor and the benefits great, I'm for looking the other way.
Nixon - covered up a break in. interfering in a police investigation. Small potatoes. Looking to vastly expand domestic spying which triggered the COINTELPRO problems and reforms. Damage = great.
Ford - Battery (golf ball striking secret service man), small potatoes. Tried bringing the country back together and assuring the government was ok. Damage = minor, benefit = good.
Carter - Having lust in his heart, big whip. Misjudged Shi'ites and conflicts with USSR. Damage = minor, benefit = minor.
Reagan - Lying to Congress, supplying terror organizations with arms, tried supply-side economics. Later abandoned supply-side economics. Damage = major, benefits = major. Wash on this one, but at least he was able to abandon economic programs that were a disaster.
Bush I - See Reagan. Did oust Iraq from Kwuait and did so severely strengthening our relations with the middle east. Damage = Moderate (but spent an awful lot of time in the bathroom), Benefit = great.
Clinton - littering and then lying about it to a witch hunt. Eh. Did preside over a terrific economic boom and surpluses used to pay down the national debt. Much improved foreign relations and had Israel and Palestine talking about peace (until both sides backed out of the deal). Damage = minor (and will continue to be so until someone can explain to me what a hummer in the WH has to do with a land deal in Arkansas), Benefit = great.
We won't talk about Bush II, but suffice it to say that I consider him a walking assault on the 1st, 9th, and 14th Amendments to the constitution as well as Article I, Section 9. Add to that a return to the miserable failure that was supply-side economics and abysmal foreign relations policies, and the tri-fecta of FUBAR is complete.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 13:16:18 [Permalink]
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O.I. said:
quote:
What, when I criticize one person, I have to criticie everyone? Will you do the same?
There has not been a president in my lifetime that I am really proud of. Yes Bush pisses me off, but so did Clinton and his cronies......
It is sad when we can no longer argue which president is better, but which was worse.....
Seriously, what is your reaction to Bush(2) violating multiple US laws: He has disregarded all due process for criminals he labels as "terrorist", he has violated the specific law that requires him to notify congress in a specifically detailed way about intel gathering activities(he did this deliberately in order to disregard other laws in secret), he has circumvented the laws (and court) that require him to obtain warrants to spy on US citizens, just to name a few laws broken.
I asked you your opinion of Bush(2) because your apparent outrage at a guy who hasn't been in the white house for 6 years, and certainly hasn't violated nearly the number of laws that Bush(2) has, seems odd in the absence of outrage at the current office holder.
It sucks when politicians violate the public trust. But there are degrees. To use an analogy: If a person speeding pisses you off, and a person committing vehicular assault doesn't piss you off more, something is wrong with your consistency and objectivity.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 17:06:06 [Permalink]
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I find Bush appalling, but I find the Clinton worshipping appalling too.....
The internet boom was the Clinton economy, Clinton had little to do with it. Clinton used domestic spying. Clinto fell for the whole Arab/Jewsh peace bs. Clinton fell for the North Korea nuclear bs. Clinton gave China missle technology. Clinton broke multiple US laws. Clinto fed into the WTO... We could go back and forth, but again why are we having a who SUCKS more conversatio. Neither of them deserved the office to which they ascended.
Gore deserves it no more. |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 17:49:38 [Permalink]
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Have to agree. Said it too many times before. He's not calling Bush a criminal. He's not calling Clinton a criminal for attacking Yugoslavia, Sudan and Iraq. Clinton saw to it that the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.
It's a corrupt system. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2006 : 22:40:13 [Permalink]
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My point, if I have one really, is that Bush so far exceedes anything Clinton did, in the context of violated US laws, that there isn't a valid comparison between the two. It isn't a matter of which one sucks/ed more, because that isn't even in question (I'd hope).
It is also currently irrelevent if Clinton was the devil himself, he is not in power.
And honestly, the only people I usually hear bashing clinton these days are neo-con style republicans (or retards like limbaugh and mAnn Coulter) who are seeking to divert debate away from the current president.
Clinton is irrelevent, it doesn't matter how many laws he broke, how many blowjobs he had in the Oval Office, or how many interns he was sleeping with. He's gone, he can't ever be president again, he basically has nothing else to contribute.
Bringing him up in discussions of present and potential future politicians is also irrelevent. It adds nothing and serves only to distract.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 00:24:27 [Permalink]
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| Bringing up a corrupt system is relevant, because the next guy will still lock up a large segment of the population, will still attack other countries, and will still work to make the poor poorer, and the very wealthy wealthier. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 02:04:46 [Permalink]
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Gorgo said:
quote:
Bringing up a corrupt system is relevant, because the next guy will still lock up a large segment of the population, will still attack other countries, and will still work to make the poor poorer, and the very wealthy wealthier.
The system is what it is. The only way to change it is to work from within it (barring violent overthrow, of course).
Again, when discussing potential future candidates or current politicians, it only distracts the conversation when you bring up out-of-power former elected officials and their corruption. Those people are moot. Personally I blame Clinton for not responding immediately when the government of Afghanistan was overthrown by the Taliban, but I blame Reagan more because his policies created the Taliban (and trained them, and armed them, so they could kill 100,000 Russian troops). But so what? None of that is really relevant to the discussion of Gore as a potential candidate.
I asked O.I. what his opinion of the current president was, because his apparent outrage at Gore and Clinton seems a bit out of place without even greater outrage for the current admin.
His complaint about Gore's ethics violation (the fundraising thing) is valid to a point. But does it disqualify Gore from being a viable candidate? It seems like the outrage by the right-wing over Clinton's blow job. Fake.
So, let me ask O.I. a different question:
If the election for president were happening today (2006), and the choices were Bush, G.W. and Gore, A. who would you be voting for?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 02:29:20 [Permalink]
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One of the Republican strategies, possibly from Carl Rove's playbook: Rather than repel, deny or counter any and all criticisms of George Bush directly, instead continuously insist that Bill Clinton, Al Gore and past Democrats are no better, and by additional continuous lists and/or claims of supposed offenses, that they are perhaps even worse.
If pressed to balance this with any criticism of the Bush policies, again say Democrats and Republicans are all alike. (Indirectly urging the idealistic of all ages during election years to be disillusioned and afraid, and not vote.) I don't know if some of the posters here are deliberately using this, but through their unrealistic outlook, they are certainly falling within it.
I'd vote for Clinton again if he were able to run. I'll vote for Gore if he runs.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 04:29:51 [Permalink]
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I don't think it was the neocons or the Republicans that invented people not being involved in changing the system or voting. I think that's been going on a long time because people know that the system doesn't work for them.
Will I vote for whatever Democrat is running? I voted for Kerry, and worked to get a Democratic Congressman elected (he lost) in the last Presidential election, but I seriously wonder what I'll do this time. It seems that voting just validates a corrupt system. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 08/17/2006 04:30:08 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 05:56:38 [Permalink]
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Outrage is outrage. Am I more outraged at Bush then Clinton? Yes, because Bush is in the forefront. Am I more outraged at Bush then Soross... No, because Bush is going to fade into a bad memory, but Sorros will be feeding the monkeys for years to come. Am I more outraged at Sorros then the system...... No, I am more outraged over the system. My outrage at Bush and Sorros pales in comparrisson.
I would probably vote Bush. I don't know if I could bring myself to vote for anyone forwarded by Sorros.
Joe |
The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs. |
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