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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
 Posted - 12/31/2001 : 14:19:25 [Permalink]
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This is a true story. A neighbor of my brother had a very virulent form of ovarian cancer. She and her husband got over $100,000 of credit that would be paid off by insurance on the cards when she died. They bought everything they wanted and took trips. The money was not to take care of her needs. They bought antique guns and blew a bundle in Vegas. Well, she beat the cancer and is filing bankruptcy. I guess at least she is going to live but she is very broke and she lost her house. Dying is not a good enough reason to rob from people which is how I would feel if I did that.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2001 : 15:33:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Dying is not a good enough reason to rob from people which is how I would feel if I did that.
Then how about only getting the cards that charge people 15.9% interest after a starting rate of 1%. That way you could be Robin Hood.
At Poofai Bay on Bora Bora the sun sets over Motu Toopua which sits in a lagoon that feels like bath water as the wind whispers in the palms and you sip your Mai Tai on the lani of Bloody Mary's bar.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2001 : 17:08:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for cremation it is just the sensible thing to do. Why would I want to just rot in the ground, have a tombstone no one will ever come to and waste the money. Funerals are for the living not the dead.
Dunno if cremation is any more 'sensible' than any other option, actually. And IMO "rotting in the ground" is, well, more organic, sans all the chemicals they seem to insist on pumping in yas. True enough about funerals, thou. If it weren't for all the weird laws, we have about funerals, always thought me would like to buy a plot to be planted in, overlooking some pleasant vista, and have a stone bench set up on it. Maybe with some dribble like, "As me is, so will ye be, so take a rest and smell the flowers." And hope some young lovers would sit a spell with me once in awhile.
Death is a condition of life, of course, nature's way of saying, "Its over, buddy." We all will share the experience first hand, but denial seems a part of our culture about death. Suppose it's part of the reason, we seem to pursue the illusion of youth so desperately. You have a more accurate guesstimate of how much time ya got left, than the rest of us. Admire your frank and unblinking facing of the situation. Not so sure, that me would be as seemly calm about it. Hope so, butt who nose... Will find out soon enough, me supposes. Liked Slater's idea of using all these hand-out credit cards to the max, thou, would ensure a few tears at me passing, anyways. Will do it, given the chance, too.
Hope this doesn't come off too flip, its awkward. Wanted to acknowledge your situation in some way, though, Shari.
"Though my soul may set in darkness,
It will rise in perfect light,
I have loved the stars too fondly,
to be fearful of the night."
-Galileo-
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2001 : 18:54:17 [Permalink]
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You're right, no one wants to talk about dying. My father died a month and a half ago from Multiple Myeloma. He was diagnosed in September and given three years. The cancer was more aggressive than the doctors thought. He died a month later. At least he's no longer in pain.
Th most frightening thing for me was seeing my father, who'd always been there, unable to feed himself and the glassy eyed look caused by too much morphine.
I think it's our own fear of our mortality that dying brings to the fore. Ah well.
Enjoy your life.
As for my own funeral. Once all the useful parts are taken, cremate me. No point in my taking up space useful to the living.
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2001 : 20:10:45 [Permalink]
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Dr. Shari, I can only commend you on your maturity and TRUE courage in dealing with this. You show that even unbelievers can face death without fear, despite what the religious people say.
I remember Billy Grahm on Larry King some years ago, telling of how he always finds that unbelievers are panicked at the point of death while only christians are calm and peaceful. He said that he is looking forward to his own death. I say: how much courage does it take to face something you look forward to? Perhaps when he doesn't see any gates of heaven opening up to recieve him, perhaps HE will be the one to panic?
You show more courage, and more humility than arrogant people like that. I salute you.
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Dr Shari
Skeptic Friend
135 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2002 : 15:31:50 [Permalink]
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As I told someone else I have seen people who claim great faith in a deity only to, at the brink of death, be frightened that they were not good enough people to go to Heaven.
The symmetry of birth, life and death is nature and once you let your ego see that the world will go on with or without you death stops being the boogeyman and becomes a friend that stops the pain and lets you go gently into that good night.
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ssivakami
New Member
India
13 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2002 : 23:18:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
...... Yet despite all the philosophical debates and discussions one has about the meaning of life to hear that you are going to face the question personally about what comes next after this life you are never really ready to know just how soon it may be.
I have fantisized about past lives I have had. I have memories of being the head household slave in a pre-Christian time merchants home and having been a much loved only child of an 1870's wealthy Boston shipping magnate that died of cholera at age 17, but in truth I suspect that once we die it is strictly dust to dust, ashes to ashes.
The funny thing is I am not bitter or scared or even upset at the prospect of no longer being. I have heard patients say Why Me?, when in truth I have always thought why not me. After all who am I that I should not be the unlucky one who dies before thier time? I am a little amused that as a 48 year old woman I got Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia, a disease usually diagnosed in men over the age of 65, for whom the prognosis is 15 years, 80 being a goodish age for a man to die while for me 3-6 years is considered an optimistic prognosis. I would like to be around to see the grandkids grow up and see what the future holds but I won't so why torture myself.
I have even planned my funeral, something my family does not see the humor in but I hope they will eventually get the joke. They are to take my insurance money and as many of my friends and relatives as possible are to spend a week in DisneyWorld spreading my ashes around. My only request is not to put any of my ashes in the It's a Small World After All attraction. Despite my wasted life even I do not deserve to have any part of me spending any time in that Hell. ;)!
Dr Shari
Your courage is admirable.
Please enjoy the time you have left.
- Sivakami.
We are a scientific civilization. That means a civilization in which knowledge and its integrity are crucial.
Science is only a latin word for knowledge .... knowledge is our destiny.
- Jacob Bronowski. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2002 : 01:21:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
I think a Viking funeral would be cool, but long boats probably cost a lot of money and the Health Department might object.
Well, the next best thing could be the Neptune Society. They are all around the country I think, maybe because I'm in California I assume the sea is always the way they depose of the remains...in a boat off shore. Check it out though.
My plans, in my mind, not on paper are leaning toward cremation also.
I do have a will made out but good luck anyone finding it in the mess in my house. But as long as my family knows that my x-sister will get NOTHING, and they do, that's all I care about. What happens to me afterward is no longer my business. Have fun tracking down my fortune.
I don't mean to make fun of anyones illness but life is a joke to me and IMO, many people take it too seriously. Anything can happen to anyone at anytime so have fun with whatever you do at any given moment.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2002 : 01:33:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
And IMO "rotting in the ground" is, well, more organic, sans all the chemicals they seem to insist on pumping in yas.
It might be a state by state issue but I've heard that you don't have to be imbalmed, if that's what you mean by chemicals. I also know of someone who makes simple wood boxes for burrials.
Being in the ground may be more orgainc but my concern is the room it takes up and where will we put all the people in the years to come? Creamation just speeds up the process.
Or maybe it's my personal feelings about cemetaries...I haven't been to my parents or any other relitives graves for a long time and don't feel a nessassity to ever go, so what's the point of them being there?
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2002 : 11:19:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
The symmetry of birth, life and death is nature and once you let your ego see that the world will go on with or without you death stops being the boogeyman ...
I think that Epicurus said it best
Grow accustomed to the belief that death is nothing to us, since every good and evil lie in sensation. However, death is the deprivation of sensation. Therefore, correct understanding that death is nothing to us makes a mortal life enjoyable, not by adding an endless span of time but by taking away the longing for immortality. For there is nothing dreadful in life for the man who has truly comprehended that there is nothing terrible in not living. Therefore, foolish is the man who says that he fears death, not because it will cause pain when it arrives but because anticipation of it is painful. What is no trouble when it arrives is an idle worry in anticipation. Death, therefore -- the most dreadful of evils -- is nothing to us, since while we exist, death is not present, and whenever death is present, we do not exist. It is nothing either to the living or the dead, since it does not exist for the living, and the dead no longer are.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2002 : 17:01:40 [Permalink]
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Dr. Shari, welcome. I hope you're with us far longer than you currently expect.
I can't add much to the many comments already in this thread, except to say, ditto.
As to Epicurus and the fear of death:
I, too, am an agnostic (or atheist, depending on your definition), and I can honestly say I do not fear death, for the reasons he expresses so well. However, I do fear pain. It's the process of dying that frightens me, not the end of the process.
Dr. S., as a physician, I'm sure you're aware of the controversies that surround end-of-life care, and I imagine that you're making your wishes clear to your family and colleagues. In your shoes (and we'll all be there, sooner or later), I'd be making sure that my death process would not be agonizingly prolonged.
Please do come and chat with us as time allows.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2002 : 11:58:58 [Permalink]
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"Hey doc. It hurts when I do this."
"Well, stop doing that!"
(Some Groucho Marx bit or other)
I'm sorry to hear you'll be leaving us some time.
And I think that's what this fear of death is. Losing those who are close to us either by them shuffling off the ole coil (coyle?), or by us doing same.
I too watched my dad die, saw some cousins in their boxes ready for the dirt nap, placed a kiss on the foreheads of twin premee's (premature babies) in their coffin, dead dogs, cats, goats..... And I have dealt death to. (currently there is some freshly deceased deer sausage in the freezer.....delicious)
And it seems to me that (fanfare please) death is a part of life and we're sad for what was and could have been, and we don't know what death means, and we fear the unknown and change it entails.
I don't know if I end when I die (despite the teddybear referred to in another post). I just hope they change the laws so that after I've donated whatever can be scavenged from this carcass, I can get wrapped up in a burlap bag and left in the ditch for the coyotes to eat.
Just because we're hypnotized, that don't mean we can't dance. - Tonio K. |
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NubiWan
Skeptic Friend
USA
424 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2002 : 16:48:43 [Permalink]
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Imbalming, yes, that's me concern. Thanks Snake. Will check it out, someday. *L* Just would like to desolve back into ol' mother earth. Not in some cemetary, mind yas, just on a hill in some waste land with a view, cared for, only as long as those who cared, had the need. It wouldn't take up that much space or that long, before compost...
Hey Badger, you might like the "Sky Funeral" idea, too.
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." -Voltaire |
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Russ
New Member
USA
22 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2002 : 17:33:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
I have no precise plans about what I am going to do with whatever time I have left except continue to grow.
Dear Shari:
I don't know if you are looking for any advice, but I have some experience in the matter. I was killed in Viet Nam in 1974 but was sent back to this side. Death is a wonderful release from the agonies of life. In death all lies before you. All who have cared for you will greet you. You will see that living your life as you normally would is the important thing, so do nothing different. You will greet all who you care for when they too arrive.
The experience is not describable in any language I know. The memory is clear in my mind but my lips are sealed by lack of words. I can see why people describe it as going through a tunnel toward a light but that is not what happens. I can see why people say they look down on themselves and the world but that is not what happens. You face an experience beyond description but it it nothing to fear. Tell your husband that what will happen to you will be good for you and that you will be there for him when he joins you. Tell him to live on and marry if he finds another good soul.
Everything you really are will remain.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2002 : 20:08:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
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Imbalming, yes, that's me concern. Thanks Snake. Will check it out, someday.
You're welcome. And don't take NO for an answer. I've found that people in government, don't know all the answers. Sometimes you have to call several people and bug a lot of them to find out all the answers. They will tell you anything off the top of their head because they THINK it sounds right. Check your state (& maybe local) laws and ask the right questions to find out what you want to know.
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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