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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 09/29/2006 : 14:03:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Also note that Josephus was probably born in the year 37, after both Jesus and John the Baptist were supposed to be dead.
He was in other words not contemporary with either of them.
So all college history textbooks should be thrown away if the author talked about people who died before he was born.
No absolutely not.
The point is however that there are no contemporary records of Jesus existence.
Josephus is probably (at the moment) the best there is and from him we have just 2 suspicious passages supposedly written almost a life time after the supposed events.
Claiming that Jesus was a historic person that died in the year 33 is a bit of a stretch. It might be so, but there is no evidence to support this.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Antigone
New Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 14:06:47 [Permalink]
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| GK Paul, are you done with your argument? I am waiting for you to finish before I respond so I get all of it, so I want to be sure you are done before I post something. |
Mortui non dolent |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 15:05:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Antigone
GK Paul, are you done with your argument? I am waiting for you to finish before I respond so I get all of it, so I want to be sure you are done before I post something.
No I'm not done, I've got more, I'll get to it as time permits. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 15:13:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Also note that Josephus was probably born in the year 37, after both Jesus and John the Baptist were supposed to be dead.
He was in other words not contemporary with either of them.
So all college history textbooks should be thrown away if the author talked about people who died before he was born.
No absolutely not.
The point is however that there are no contemporary records of Jesus existence.
Josephus is probably (at the moment) the best there is and from him we have just 2 suspicious passages supposedly written almost a life time after the supposed events.
Claiming that Jesus was a historic person that died in the year 33 is a bit of a stretch. It might be so, but there is no evidence to support this.
There are no contemporary records that the Big Bang happened, but that doesn't stop some scientists from believing it. There are no contemporary records that life formed from non-living chemicals but that doesn't stop some scientists from believing it. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 09/29/2006 15:15:03 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 17:02:15 [Permalink]
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GK Paul wrote:quote:
There are no contemporary records that the Big Bang happened, but that doesn't stop some scientists from believing it.
Dead wrong. The cosmic background radiation is a "contemporary record" of the Big Bang.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 17:30:30 [Permalink]
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GK Paul said:quote:
There are no contemporary records that life formed from non-living chemicals but that doesn't stop some scientists from believing it.
No scientist "believes" it. They may "believe it to be probable", but they do not hang teh same weight on the word "believe" as you religious people do.
Besides, it is probable that there is indeed a contemporary record of abiogenesis out there. Perhaps frozen on Titan, or orbiting with Pluto and Eris, or some other OORT object. The chemical footprint of the early solar system is out there waiting for us to come look at it.
Assuming we don't stumble onto some other contemporary record here on earth, preserved in an ancient fossil.
Abiogenesis is a very new field of inquiry, and we are just beggining to be able to take a serious crack at solving it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 17:47:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
GK Paul:
There's also the hundreds of doctor verified healings of the Benny Hinn Ministry which have no medical explanation.
Benny Hinn is a fraud and a liar.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 21:09:42 [Permalink]
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Just like other well known Faith healing scum
Peter Popoff
quote:
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Matther 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Seems like your god has already warned you about the likes of Benny Hinn. Maybe we need more Dueteronomy 13:5 for these false prophets, who are living rather well due to the gullibility of people such as you. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 22:03:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
There's also the hundreds of doctor verified healings of the Benny Hinn Ministry which have no medical explanation. This is empiricle evidence of the "power and truth" of the Gospel of Christ.
It's only "evidence of the "power and truth" of the Gospel of Christ" if those healings could have happened in no other way. "Unexplained" doesn't equal "God did it."
If it did, then every time we discover something that we didn't know before, your god gets smaller and smaller. What sort of god is that?quote:
Many atheists believe there is no life after death. But those same atheists believe life began when non-living chemicals somehow miraculously came to life.
No, you're now making up stuff about atheists. You've got no room to preach about rudeness when you're quite able and willing to be tremendously rude yourself.quote:
Their belief is kind of like a tornado going thru a junkyard and creating a fully operational space shuttle that's ready to lift off. There is one difference though.
Yeah, the difference is that real origins-of-life science isn't based on the ancient tornado-in-a-junkyard canard. Of course you don't realize that this argument was thoroughly debunked a few decades before you were born. But even if you were aware of that, you don't let truth stand in your way, now do you?quote:
I will continue this argument later.
Why bother? You're just repeating an old bad argument. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2006 : 23:16:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
There are no contemporary records that the Big Bang happened, but that doesn't stop some scientists from believing it. There are no contemporary records that life formed from non-living chemicals but that doesn't stop some scientists from believing it.
As others have noted the reason that people think that these things happend is because there is evidence that is best explained by them.
The christian religion could have been started by a historical christ living and working around the years 15 to 30, but we have no evidence of this. The first evidence we have of a christian religion is several decades later when Paul starts writing.
We have no evidence of any non-christian noticing until yet decades later. |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 03:25:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I'm an agnostic, and as a consequence of that I am also an atheist.
Here is the evidence for the big bang:
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
Now, back to your refusal to define your god and provide evidence for it.
I looked at your web site. Its just a lot of theory. Primordial Energy? What is that, does anybody know. Primordial energy doesn't exist now, how can you prove it existed 14 billion years ago. And if there was some mysterious kind of energy, where did it come. And if you say this primordial energy (that doesn't exist now) just always existed. Why couldn't have God just always existed. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 10/01/2006 03:28:13 |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 03:55:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
There's also the hundreds of doctor verified healings of the Benny Hinn Ministry which have no medical explanation. This is empiricle evidence of the "power and truth" of the Gospel of Christ.
It's only "evidence of the "power and truth" of the Gospel of Christ" if those healings could have happened in no other way. "Unexplained" doesn't equal "God did it."
If it did, then every time we discover something that we didn't know before, your god gets smaller and smaller. What sort of god is that?quote:
Many atheists believe there is no life after death. But those same atheists believe life began when non-living chemicals somehow miraculously came to life.
No, you're now making up stuff about atheists. You've got no room to preach about rudeness when you're quite able and willing to be tremendously rude yourself.quote:
Their belief is kind of like a tornado going thru a junkyard and creating a fully operational space shuttle that's ready to lift off. There is one difference though.
Yeah, the difference is that real origins-of-life science isn't based on the ancient tornado-in-a-junkyard canard. Of course you don't realize that this argument was thoroughly debunked a few decades before you were born. But even if you were aware of that, you don't let truth stand in your way, now do you?quote:
I will continue this argument later.
Why bother? You're just repeating an old bad argument.
I apologize for using the word miraculous. But I believe that a thing (that has never been alive) suddenly coming to life is a miracle. I believe it is a greater miracle than Christ raising Lazurus from the dead. And I believe it is a greater miracle than Christ rising from the dead.
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"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 10/01/2006 04:13:19 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 05:28:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I'm an agnostic, and as a consequence of that I am also an atheist.
Here is the evidence for the big bang:
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
Now, back to your refusal to define your god and provide evidence for it.
I looked at your web site. Its just a lot of theory. Primordial Energy? What is that, does anybody know. Primordial energy doesn't exist now, how can you prove it existed 14 billion years ago. And if there was some mysterious kind of energy, where did it come. And if you say this primordial energy (that doesn't exist now) just always existed. Why couldn't have God just always existed.
Of course God could have always existed. It is certainly a possibility, even though there is no empirical evidence in it's support.
I put up something on the Big bang, what it is and what it isn't, somepages back, so I won't go back into it. However, here is a little something on "Primordial Enegry." quote:
The Big Bang, the event which created space and time, seems to be a paradox. At the earliest moments of the universe, the density of matter and energy in the universe would require gravity to be the dominant force. However, gravity attracts. How could it cause the universe to expand?
The answer may be that gravity does not always attract. Sometimes, under the right conditions, it's possible that gravity repels. We may see this reverse gravity today in the form of dark energy.
Astronomers combine mathematical models with observations to develop workable theories of how the universe came to be. The mathematical evidence for the Big Bang began with Albert Einstein's theory of general relativity. The physical evidence has come from three different lines of investigation:
It in interesting to note that the term "Primordial Energy" is used to exhaustion by the free energy quacks.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 05:49:19 [Permalink]
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As long as science cannot 100% explain a concept, then GK Paul's idea of god will be used to fill in the gap.
Just like a muscle, mis-use or non-use of your brain can result in damage, sometimes irreversible. Magic thinking is the tamping iron to a person's rational, logical self. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 10/01/2006 05:56:12 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 12:06:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
As long as science cannot 100% explain a concept, then GK Paul's idea of god will be used to fill in the gap.
Just like a muscle, mis-use or non-use of your brain can result in damage, sometimes irreversible. Magic thinking is the tamping iron to a person's rational, logical self.
It's even worse than that. I think GK Paul and the fundies in general would not simply plaster any gap in a scientific knowledge with Biblical "wisdom" -- they'd toss out whole scientific theories and replace them with their ancient myths. In fact, gaps are only an excuse to them. If there were no controversies within evolutionary biology at all, they'd be working just as hard to replace the ToE.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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