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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2006 : 05:43:30
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http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/01/Southpinellas/147_years_later__evol.shtml
quote:
The group was biochemist Michael Behe, one of the nation's most prominent supporters of intelligent design, and author of Darwin's Black Box; research scientist Ralph Seelke; and embryologist Jonathan Wells, author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design.
If life evolved from nothing as Darwinists claim, why hasn't anyone ever witnessed or documented such an occurrence, asked Wells, a biologist and senior fellow at the Discovery Institute. He called the lack of proof as the "ultimate missing link."
Maybe somone should have asked them if they know they get their funding from militant christian bigots.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2006 : 07:06:18 [Permalink]
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The weakness of ID, and of the overall critique of evolution, is subtly apparent in the article. Indeed, it's repeated twice. Now, the biggest objection seems to be that since no one has actually seen life form from non-life (nevermind that the question of the origin of life is beyond the scope of evolutionary theory), it's essentially unproven.
I'm sort of stunned at the whole thing. Have any of them witnessed Yahweh creating life? If no one sees me shoot a person, does that mean I cannot be convicted? The stupidity of such critiques is absurd!! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 07:30:20 [Permalink]
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Three people: Behe, Wells, and Seelke.
Three words: dolt, lout, and doofus. 
Esoteric letters behind the name do not a scholar and a scientist make, and these three are tight competition with the clowns of AiG and CMI for the coveted Moe, Larry & Curly Awards in the Creative Blather Catagory.
I wonder, in the deep sea hydrothermal vents might not abogenesis be taking place today? We know very little about these virtually closed enviornments that base their food chain upon hydrogen suflide.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 10/01/2006 07:34:54 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 09:12:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
From article:
ST. PETERSBURG - Three scientists held a deep discussion Saturday questioning Charles Darwin and his theories and bolstering their viewpoint that life was created by design, not by accident.
The group was biochemist Michael Behe, one of the nation's most prominent supporters of intelligent design, and author of Darwin's Black Box; research scientist Ralph Seelke; and embryologist Jonathan Wells, author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design.
I think what is most telling is that these same three guys are trying to convince lay people. They are trying to popularize their view as though intelligent design and evolution are up for election. As much as we would like regular folks to be up on science, (and we certainly would or we wouldn't be doing what we do here on this site) it doesn't matter one wit what they believe from a scientific perspective. The ID advocates have utterly failed to convince the scientific community of their anti evolution silliness.
The fact is, they are lying and they know it.
quote:
From article:
If life evolved from nothing as Darwinists claim, why hasn't anyone ever witnessed or documented such an occurrence, asked Wells, a biologist and senior fellow at the Discovery Institute. He called the lack of proof as the "ultimate missing link."
Darwinists do not make that claim (whatever a Darwinist is…) It is a bald faced lie to link evolution to abiogeneses. And even those studying abiogeneses do not claim that life arose from nothing.
Furthermore they depend on the usual creationist arguments from ignorance and from personal incredulity and both of those arguments are logical fallacies…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 11:36:17 [Permalink]
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I read this tripe today, and was not amused. It prompted me to send an email to the author...
quote:
RE this article:
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/01/Southpinellas/147_years_later__evol.shtml
As a journalist you have an obligation to balance competing points of view and make sure that you characterize them fairly.
You should start by trying to find any research that has been done in the field of "intelligent design" by the three alleged scientists you quote so heavily in your article. Then you should go ahead and look up the research by any three reputable evolutionary biologists on evolution. Start with Ernst Mayr, Steven Gould, and Richard Dawkins if you are unaware of the names of any reputable evolutionary biologists. Make a list for each group of peer reviewed papers published in the relevent fields (intelligent design and evolutionary biology) Now, put those lists side by side and compare them.
Then you could do some digging into the actual mission of the Discovery Institute. You could start by researching a document of theirs called the "wedge strategy", I'll give you a link that should get you started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy
After that then you might be able to actually provide a fair characterization and balanced presentation of these two "competing" points of view for your readers.
Anything less is an unforgivable breach of journalistic integrity.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 10/01/2006 11:50:09 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 12:06:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I read this tripe today, and was not amused. I prompted me to send an email to the author...
[quote]RE this article:
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/01/Southpinellas/147_years_later__evol.shtml
As a journalist you have an obligation to balance competing points of view and make sure that you characterize them fairly.
You should start by trying to find any research that has been done in the field of "intelligent design" by the three alleged scientists you quote so heavily in your article. Then you should go ahead and look up the research by any three reputable evolutionary biologists on evolution. Start with Ernst Mayr, Steven Gould, and Richard Dawkins if you are unaware of the names of any reputable evolutionary biologists. Make a list for each group of peer reviewed papers published in the relevent fields (intelligent design and evolutionary biology) Now, put those lists side by side and compare them.
Then you could do some digging into the actual mission of the Discovery Institute. You could start by researching a document of theirs called the "wedge strategy", I'll give you a link that should get you started.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy
After that then you might be able to actually provide a fair characterization and balanced presentation of these two "competing" points of view for your readers.
Anything less is an unforgivable breach of journalistic integrity.
Ah Dude, ever the Don Quixote...
I, the loyal, and often even sober, Sancho, must remind that too many of today's "journalists" and their employers only care for numbers of readers and advertising dollars, and thus will do their stories to fluff the unthinking with most irresponsible manners and methods. Thus, the truth suffers, as it always has, alas, and righteous words are lost........
But write the fuckers anyway.... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 10/01/2006 12:08:33 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2006 : 13:33:19 [Permalink]
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I too sent a letter to the author, however, I didn't express myself like Dude did.
I merelry pointed out some errors like the conflation of evolution and abiogenesis, the constant misrepresentation of ID being science, how ID is a God-of-the-gap religion in disguise, and some more.
I hope she replies.
I also sent her a link to this thread, should she fancy some criticism and info about ID, so I think we should try to be a bit constructive... 
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 12:21:42 [Permalink]
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I didn't get much of a response:
quote:
Mikael,
Thanks for your comments.
Melanie
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 12:44:53 [Permalink]
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| Reply with f*ck-you for your disregard. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 13:37:04 [Permalink]
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Nah, she's not worth the effort.
She has already sold her integrity and soul to the religious hypocrits/bigots. There's not much else to do at that point. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 17:10:34 [Permalink]
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Well, if Moe, Larry and Curly say it's so, then....
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Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 02:50:44 [Permalink]
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She just told me I should write a letter to the editor... and thanked me for my comments.
This used to be a good newspaper.... and alot of it is ok still. The quality has declined in the last 10 years though.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 05:07:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Reply with f*ck-you for your disregard.
That does not really help.
I answered one of those rw-ID columnists in a kind way and got a reply. He had received a lot of hate mail and appreciated civilized feedback from the dark side.
Of course I was not able to corrupt him from his YEC faith(his article was about ID, but his reply showed that he got his desinfo from AIG), but you never know, I might have sown some doubt.
If you are going to bother at all - Be courteous and not condescending
- Focus on a single, easy to comprehend error/misunderstanding
- Give one good reference (preferably not from t.o. as you can expect that this columnist/writer will receive hundreds of those anyway)
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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