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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
 Posted - 10/23/2006 : 23:34:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
And I've already given substanial historical, and empiricle evidence concerning Christ and the power of Christianity. I've mentioned 3 non-Christian historians who wrote about Christ within 120 years of His birth. (Josehpus , Tacitus, and Seutonius).
Yes, and I and others have shoot that to pieces (that these historians are empirical evidence of Jesus existence). You were unable to counter and subsequently lost that argument.
This was before you pretended to ignore me and others, remember.
Making this claim when it have already been refuted is lying!
But then that would not be the first for you, now would it? |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 18:26:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Wow, how did GeeMack get a pass? I guess GK Paul hasn't seen the other thread, yet.
I think GeeMack bypassed "ignore" and went straight to DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION! |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 03:00:24 [Permalink]
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GK Paul said:
quote:
But the time has come to draw a line in the sand unfortunately. I hate too be so cut and dry logical about all this.
That made me laugh out loud.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 05:26:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Well just for the record, I'm not reading anymore posts from Starman, Dr. Mabuse, Dave W. and Half Mooner because of rude comments made to me "after" I specifically asked that they stop.
Based upon your lack of response to the arguments made by these member and others, you were already ignoring their post.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
With regard to defining the Trinity, I've already done that in Part II page 15. And I've already given substanial historical, and empiricle evidence concerning Christ and the power of Christianity. I've mentioned 3 non-Christian historians who wrote about Christ within 120 years of His birth. (Josehpus , Tacitus, and Seutonius). I will also give you a quote from Oxford historian Thomas Arnold who wrote the 3 volume "History Of Rome".
The problems with your evidence has already been presented you either ignored it or dismissed it since it was inconsistent with the truth you already knew in your heart.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
'Thousands and tens of thousands of people have gone through {the evidence of the resurrection} piece by piece, as careful as every judge summing up a most important cause. I have myself done it many times over, not to persuade others but to satisfy myself. I have been used for many years to study histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God hath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."
Source: Thomas Arnold, as sited in Wilbur Smith's "Therefore Stand" (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1945) 425-26
This specifically has not been addressed, but similar arguments have. It has nothing to do with evidence, rather what people believe.
You are clearly a person convinced of and commited to your faith, your beliefs. A valid question is, "Have you ever considered what evidence, if any, would it take to get you to change you mind?"
Name something I've ignored or dismissed that wasn't asked in a rude manner. It's hard for a forum to almost reach Part 4 when there is a lot of ignoring going on...
I'm not looking for evidence to get me to change my mind and it would be totally illogical to do so. I've already done my search and found the truth in Christ. Nothing anyone has said in these forums has changed my mind.
And as I said before, any inconsistencies that occur in the bible only prove how seperated man was from God. It is impossible to have full and complete knowledge of God if sin has seperated you from God. If man in his sinful state had the ability to know and understand God fully (and thus no inconsistencies) than Christ would have never needed to come and His death on the cross was a just waste of time...
The only reason I'm in these forums (now) is to spread the good news of eternal life that is possible thru Christ. You have the free will to accept Christ and eternal life or not too.
By the way that's what the word gospel means -- Good News. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 10/30/2006 05:55:09 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 05:50:13 [Permalink]
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God-boy's got all the answers!
"I'm not looking for evidence to get me to change my mind..." Soundly and willfully a holy ignoramus. He also, it goes without him saying, and as he's shown us repeatedly, won't look at contrary evidence collected by others for his benefit. This boy can hardly be expected to be truthful to us, when he's so committed to lying even to himself. Now we begin to get an inside look at how his mind fails to work.
And even holier nonsense!: "And as I said before, any inconsistencies that occur in the bible only prove how seperated man was from God." Wonderful! So he has a song-and-dance even to explain why the infallible and literal Bible, the very Word of God, can sometimes be excused for being in error.
But God-boy's let the Devil slip in with that one. If some of that book can be false, most, or even all of it could be. And doubtless is.
This is getting funnier by the day!
[Edited: Corrected my ignorant spelling of "ignoramus."]
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/30/2006 19:41:56 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 06:05:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Name something I've ignored or dismissed that wasn't asked in a rude manner. It's hard for a forum to almost reach Part 4 when there is a lot of ignoring going on...
You have not ignored everything, true, but when you were unable to counter the refutation of your historicity claim you dodged out of the discussion only to reuse the same claim again. quote:
I'm not looking for evidence to get me to change my mind and it would be totally illogical to do so. I've already done my search and found the truth in Christ. Nothing anyone has said in these forums has changed my mind.
So the one you are most of all is lying to is your self. quote:
And as I said before, any inconsistencies that occur in the bible only prove how seperated man was from God. It is impossible to have full and complete knowledge of God if sin has seperated you from God. If man in his sinful state had the ability to know and understand God before Christ came than Christ's death on the cross was a total waste of time...
That might feel like a convenient refuge for you but it is moronic. What then is the purpose of the Bible and the Gospel?quote:
The only reason I'm in these forums (now) is to spread the good news of eternal life that is possible thru Christ.
And I'm sorry to say that because of your arrogance, rudeness and dishonesty, you have failed miserably. |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
| Edited by - Starman on 10/30/2006 06:06:44 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 07:08:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Name something I've ignored or dismissed that wasn't asked in a rude manner. It's hard for a forum to almost reach Part 4 when there is a lot of ignoring going on...
You clearly need to develop some thicker skin. If you expect to become a top notch witness for Jesus, you have got to expect to encounter people who are just as familiar with the bible as you are and have come to a different conclusion. Choosing to ignore people because you consider them to be rude may not always be an option. You may be denying yourself opportunities for personal growth and maturity.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I'm not looking for evidence to get me to change my mind and it would be totally illogical to do so. I've already done my search and found the truth in Christ. Nothing anyone has said in these forums has changed my mind.
Actually, I asked you "Have you considered ...". My intent is not to get you to change your mind, but to see if you have honestly considered that the arguments you have encountered here may be valid. Or whether you are so firm in your belief that all reasonable arguments contrary to your belief are simply not valid.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
And as I said before, any inconsistencies that occur in the bible only prove how seperated man was from God. It is impossible to have full and complete knowledge of God if sin has seperated you from God. If man in his sinful state had the ability to know and understand God fully (and thus no inconsistencies) than Christ would have never needed to come and His death on the cross was a just waste of time...
Well, I am familiar with apologetics, too.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
The only reason I'm in these forums (now) is to spread the good news of eternal life that is possible thru Christ. You have the free will to accept Christ and eternal life or not too.
Yes, I know. Sin is the disease and Christ is the cure. And both just happen to be constructs conveniently presented in the same fabulous book.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
By the way that's what the word gospel means -- Good News.
And the banana was designed ...
edited: in to is |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 10/30/2006 09:01:13 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 09:15:15 [Permalink]
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On page 9 of this thread, GK Paul wrote: quote:
For those of you who believe in the Big Bang here is an article that says the bible taught it first.
http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2000issue03/index.shtml#big_bang_the_bible_taught_it_first
But GK Paul already posted the same thing in a discussion he started in the Religion folder called "Big Bang". In that discussion, I and many other people on this forum responded critically to the article. But GK Paul never countered or even acknowledged most of those arguments, including any of mine. And then he goes and posts the exact same statement and article again here - Talk about rude!
GK Paul, I took the time to read that article and post a thoughtful response. Here it is again: quote:
I just read the entire article and reviewed all the referenced Scriptural passages. The entire argument that the Big Bang theory is in the Bible amounts to this:
1.) Many times, the Bible says the universe was created, or had a discreet beginning
2.) 11 times in 5 different books, the Bible says the universe was stretched, both continuously being stretched and done being stretched.
3.) At least 4 times the Bible says the stars are very old.
1.) The concept that the universe in its current state has a discreet beginning is one possibility out of 2 conventional ones. The other possibility is that the universe is eternal. A 50/50 chance of guessing right isn't exactly impressive. It is especially unimpressive when we consider that most things that people observe change. Most things have an obvious cause and effect, beginning and end, and so to assume this is true of the universe is totally natural and intuitive. I fail to see how this is specific to the Big Bang Theory.
(That said, modern physics tells us that time and space are connected, so in the grand scheme of things, to argue over whether all thing which exist are ultimately eternal or having a discreet beginning is nonsensical.)
2.) The authors claim that the continuously being stretched verses refer to how the universe is still expanding, and that the finished being stretched verses refer to the formation of the laws of physics as they function in our universe. There's a gigantic assumption based on very little evidence, especially considering that the authors admit that the “heavens” being stretched are shehaqîm (clouds of fine particles of water or dust in the Earth's atmosphere), not shamayim (the astronomical universe). At least they get points for their honesty, if not their logic.
3.) The stars are very old – well no duh. To ancient people the stars would have been these very mysterious things that slowly rotated around the earth but were otherwise unchanging, while on earth living things grew and died, and the landscape was constantly transformed by nature and people. Like the guess about the universe having a discreet beginning, it is totally natural and intuitive to assume that the stars are one of the oldest things around. That's why the Greeks thought they were gods!
As for Romans supposedly telling us about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, I just read all of Romans, and the law referred to is the “law of sin and death”. It refers to the Christian concept of the fall of mankind.
If someone claims this refers to the physical concept of the heat death of the universe, we must conclude that God created that physical law in response to Adam and Eve's sinful transgression in the Garden of Eden. But Ross and Rea claim that all the laws of physics were fixed from the start (the whole thing about the stretching being completed.) So which came first, the fall of man or the Second L |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 13:08:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
The only reason I'm in these forums (now) is to spread the good news of eternal life that is possible thru Christ. You have the free will to accept Christ and eternal life or not too.
By the way that's what the word gospel means -- Good News.
By being such an ass, you are making people run the other way.
When I read your post I say to myself and to anyone around me: "Thank God I'm not a f-ing stupid Christian!"
GK Paul, you make me deliriously happy I left the church, because I would never want to be associated with someone like you.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2006 : 19:17:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm not looking for evidence to get me to change my mind and it would be totally illogical to do so. I've already done my search and found the truth in Christ. Nothing anyone has said in these forums has changed my mind.
And as I said before, any inconsistencies that occur in the bible only prove how seperated man was from God. It is impossible to have full and complete knowledge of God if sin has seperated you from God. If man in his sinful state had the ability to know and understand God fully (and thus no inconsistencies) than Christ would have never needed to come and His death on the cross was a just waste of time...
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The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 00:56:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
GK Paul, exactly what statement by Dr. Mabuse (quote passage please) did you find rude? He states that he will try to amend.
I'll respond to this Halfmooner question since it was from page 9 and before I chose to ignore his posts because of rudeness.
I'll privately message Dr. Mabuse when I get the time and tell him. I don't have a lot of time to deal with rudeness and personal attacks. That is why I choose to just ignore the posts of people who are in to all that.
If I choose not to respond to a question than just come in and say you did not respond to this question 1 times, 2 times, 3 times, etc. and if you don't get a response than you don't get a response. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 10/31/2006 01:19:27 |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 01:40:09 [Permalink]
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To Marfknox, I'm glad you spent so much time reading that Big Bang article. If you have any questions about the article it would probably be better to go to the "Reasons to Believe" Web site and read all of their many articles.
Actually I made that Big Bang Forum by mistake. I hit the New Topic Button instead of the Reply to Topic Button. Maybe the Holy Spirit wanted it in there for some reason. When I get the time I might go thru your detailed analysis more carefully. Its the type of post that will take a lot of time and thought to respond to. I'm still learning about the Big Bang Theory. But I'll tell you this; the more I read about it the more I realize just how little scientists understand what exactly went on during this inappropriately named "Big Bang" that wasn't even an explosion. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 02:34:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I'm still learning about the Big Bang Theory. But I'll tell you this; the more I read about it the more I realize just how little scientists understand what exactly went on during this inappropriately named "Big Bang" that wasn't even an explosion.
The name "Big Bang" was coined by the British Astronomer Fred Hoyle who rejected the Big Bang theory.
(Hoyle and others argued for a steady state universe, but mounting observational evidence convinced most cosmologists that the Big Bang was the theory that agreed best with observations, which is what counts in science.)
Yes it is true that scientists know little of what went on before (if you can say that there was a before) and during the Big Bang (The energy levels are difficult to recreate) but that does not mean that they don't know that there was a Big Bang.
So you are learning about some things? Feels good doesn´t it? |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 03:02:29 [Permalink]
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God-boy wrote: "I'll respond to this Halfmooner question since it was from page 9 and before I chose to ignore his posts because of rudeness." Oh, wonderful! A "grandfather clause" exception to his Ignore List!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/31/2006 03:04:35 |
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2006 : 19:11:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
To Marfknox, I'm glad you spent so much time reading that Big Bang article. If you have any questions about the article it would probably be better to go to the "Reasons to Believe" Web site and read all of their many articles.
Actually I made that Big Bang Forum by mistake. I hit the New Topic Button instead of the Reply to Topic Button. Maybe the Holy Spirit wanted it in there for some reason. When I get the time I might go thru your detailed analysis more carefully. Its the type of post that will take a lot of time and thought to respond to. I'm still learning about the Big Bang Theory. But I'll tell you this; the more I read about it the more I realize just how little scientists understand what exactly went on during this inappropriately named "Big Bang" that wasn't even an explosion.
Well, if manners are important to you, as you claim, then would you please be so kind as to answer my question on the Big Bang? (it's still waiting patiently for you in that thread).
Thank you.
(notice I said "please" and "thank you")
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Elvis didn't do no drugs!
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