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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 01/11/2002 : 13:12:32 [Permalink]
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Who he's talking to or what about, we'll never know. Some damn hippie's spitting at him. There's a lake around him and it's hard for him to see.
quote:
There-there, there-there...everything will be alright. Poor Gorgo isn't understood. But you must remember to take your medications or the nurses will become irrationally angry with you and take away your internet privileges again.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it.
Edited by - slater on 01/11/2002 13:05:29
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 13:16:38 [Permalink]
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OK, OK. Please let's not hijack another topic. I could always create a special area for this....Beating a dead horse forum or something. Or create a new topic in the appropriate area to carry it on.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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smartblonde57
New Member
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 13:33:40 [Permalink]
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Hi to all, from the new kid here. (This is my first post.)
I was all set to vote for Osama. Then I read someone's excellent point that he is too smart to win a moron award.
I had to vote for Fallwell and Robertson. Will they ever get a clue?
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-- Mary
E-mail: smartblonde57@yahoo.com
Personal website: http://www.smartblonde57.com |
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dimossi
Skeptic Friend
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 13:46:35 [Permalink]
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We should have a Moron of the Month. Might make it at least easier to narrow down who is the biggest moron during that shorter time span.
I will go ahead and nominate Dubya for Moron of the Month of January with his talk of "Not over my dead body" regarding taxes and then the "Prayer Shield".
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." [Carl Sagan]
Edited by - dimossi on 01/11/2002 13:48:00 |
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boltthrow
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 16:02:02 [Permalink]
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within the parameters of this topic, yes i think falwell & robertson win the MOTY award...
but all this fretting about their influence and power i believe is energy wasted, now more so than ever.
my feeling is that F&R have been hoisted on their own petard. their statements re 9/11 have done more to marginalize and de-legitimize them than any skeptic could ever do, akin to what OBL's action did to his cause (there will undoubtably be more terrorist events, but OBL and his specific people will be hunted down and destroyed -- and other terror-types around the world are already realizing that america is playing a very different ballgame than it did pre-9/11)
robertson resigned from his own christian coalition, falwell has been blackballed in major media since 9/13 or whenevr he said those things, and countless opinion-leaders bother conserv and liberal came out and hellishly castigated them.
more than ever before, people are realizing the harmful effects of all stripes of fundamentalism...even our homegrown ones. people also realize that overblown rhetoric does indeed affect the real world and are unwilling to support the kind of bloodthirsty words F&R have been using for years.
personally, i'm happy for the reversal but i think that, altho us skeptics have long had a hard-on for F&R and their ilk, they are not the enemies they once were and we might do better to readjust our aim.
of course they can always be resurrected but at the moment they're deader than a doornail.
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 17:47:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
My god, you two have done it again. Another perfectly pleasant thread had degenerated into Gorgo and rubysue hissing at each other.
Why don't you guys go start a BB of your own where you can tear each other to shreds without bothering the rest of us?
Okay, I apologize, that was uncalled for. But I do kinda get tired of this crap. Especially since neither one of you is going to change the other's mind (or anyone else's, most likely).
Great idea (except for the Gorgo/Rubysue BB)! I'm so sorry that I exist to bother everyone here and that I don't fit into the same political viewpoint that most of the rest of you follow. I shall make every effort to not darken your doorstep again; there isn't a lot on this forum that is appealing anymore, anyway. I'm quite tired of knowing that if I express any opinion that is contrary to certain SFN regulars, it will end up starting a never-ending round of multiple posts slamming me into the mat.
Gorgo - I do apologize for past rudeness and insults (I will give you that). I confess the following (and please note that this is my opinion): I don't like your style or your political beliefs (no surprise there) and you are obviously not enamored with mine. I will not compromise my beliefs to make other people on this board "happy", so I guess the best thing for me to do is go elsewhere (at least for the time being) for entertainment and discussion.
I actually enjoyed the SFN in the beginning, but I'm not sure what I believe now about many things, so I will go back to quiet surfing and lurking in many different places. If I see something of interest here, I may or may not join the conversation. I know I've threatened to quit before, so I won't go that far. However, I won't stand for any more insults about my supposed lack of understanding of things that I actually know a lot about.
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 19:11:33 [Permalink]
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You are just taking this wrong rubysue. Many people agree with you. It's just that the discussion was beginning to take a bad tirn and no one was blaming you for this. Gorgo did more than his fair share. No one means to stop anyone from discussing anything and your first post here fit perfectly. It was Gorgos response that started us down this tangent.
I want Gorgo to post as well but Gorgo you should try to refrain from goading people into angry responses and then play the innocent victim.
Debate is fine. We love that. It's why we're here to a great degree.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 19:55:44 [Permalink]
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Thanks, @tomic. I agree completely.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2002 : 21:15:46 [Permalink]
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I get the greatest delight from arguing vehemently with people that I like and then going on as if we had a good time which we usually do. I would like to learn to like you Rubysue. I'd say that about Slater, but it seems he doesn't want to be liked, so what? Yes, I think you're both pompous and rude, but so what? Do you think I think I can't be seen that way? Don't leave. Relax. I have a lot to learn about a lot of things. This isn't an apology, because I don't think either of us did anything wrong. You don't understand me, and I don't understand you. So what? I don't understand most of the world.
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Gorgo - I do apologize for past rudeness and insults (I will give you that). I confess the following (and please note that this is my opinion): I don't like your style or your political beliefs (no surprise there) and you are obviously not enamored with mine. I will not compromise my beliefs to make other people on this board "happy", so I guess the best thing for me to do is go elsewhere (at least for the time being) for entertainment and discussion.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2002 : 05:39:00 [Permalink]
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Don't give me that shit, Larry. These people can dish it out but they can't take it. They ignore everyone else's foibles, but because they don't like what I have to say, I'm the grinch that stole their grandpa's vibrating butt plug when they think I don't have my I's dotted. You're part of that same crew.
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You are just taking this wrong rubysue. Many people agree with you. It's just that the discussion was beginning to take a bad tirn and no one was blaming you for this. Gorgo did more than his fair share. No one means to stop anyone from discussing anything and your first post here fit perfectly. It was Gorgos response that started us down this tangent.
I want Gorgo to post as well but Gorgo you should try to refrain from goading people into angry responses and then play the innocent victim.
Debate is fine. We love that. It's why we're here to a great degree.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2002 : 11:52:56 [Permalink]
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Gorgo:
quote:
Nothing Chomsky said is Anti-American, in fact, he has written much about the Stalinistic idea of calling those who criticize the policy of many governments as "Anti-American." I assume "Knee- Jerk" is just a throw-away meaningless phrase.
The Stalinists used the phrase 'anti-American' to refer to things they disliked? Hmm, I wouldn't have thought that the Stalinists would have liked America. *shrugs* I like this place, I'm already learning new things!
Seriously, I'm not involved in this dispute you have with other members, I don't even quite know what it's about...so, the automatic use of insults is hardly called for. If you have a case, if Chomsky has been misrepresented, I would be happy to hear you out. But your reliance on insult and invective would seem to be a symptom of a weak argument.
As for knee-jerk, I mean by that the policy of both sides, left and right, to instinctivly blame America.
I admit, I did not recall his exact comments...here are a few:
quote:
CHENNAI, NOV. 10. Arguing that the war on Afghanistan constituted a greater terrorist act than the September 11 attacks on the United States, the renowned scholar, Prof. Noam Chomsky, today denounced state terrorism in all its forms.
The U.S., he said, did not seek the sanction of the United Nations Security Council for the war despite knowing that it could have obtained the sanction without any difficulty because it did not want to legitimise the need to approach the Council. The U.S. wanted to reserve its right to act unilaterally.
I don't think that exactly fits the definition of terrorist....
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"Like a mafia leader the US chose Afghanistan and struck at that country because it could not strike back," he said.
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"The US is not a democracy and the permanent interest of the country is the interest of the property-holders," he contended.
Whadda ya know! Apparently, having the right to vote and have your basic rights protected does not a democracy make! Imagine that.
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Continuing his criticism, Chomsky said, "The five countries who support America's action are all terrorist states themselves."
England and Germany are terrorist states...imagine that!
Kindness eases change -Octavia Butler
Edit to add: Hi Smartblonde.
Edited by - Xev on 01/12/2002 11:54:54 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2002 : 14:19:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
The Stalinists used the phrase 'anti-American' to refer to things they disliked? Hmm, I wouldn't have thought that the Stalinists would have liked America. *shrugs* I like this place, I'm already learning new things!
No. Chomsky has written about the similarity between the Soviet Union and the U.S. in that regard. Anti-Soviet and Anti-American have the same ring. One can't criticize either goverment, or one is labeled Anti-American, or as someone else pointed out Un-American, which may be a more used term here.
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Seriously, I'm not involved in this dispute you have with other members, I don't even quite know what it's about...so, the automatic use of insults is hardly called for. If you have a case, if Chomsky has been misrepresented, I would be happy to hear you out. But your reliance on insult and invective would seem to be a symptom of a weak argument.
I don't know which word you felt insulted by. It was not my intention to insult you. It seems in these forums (fora?) that calling people names - "moron" or "joke" for instance - is not a childish insult, but disagreeing with other people is a childish insult. I haven't yet learned why.
While we're on the subject of others, I realize that Rubysue has read Chomsky. I did not mean that literally. She has not read the Chomsky that I read. I do not expect all who read Chomsky to agree. Even those who disagree here have said that much of what he has said is correct. I would expect them to disagree if they want to. What I don't expect is for them to misrepresent Chomsky.
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As for knee-jerk, I mean by that the policy of both sides, left and right, to instinctivly blame America.
I don't see Chomsky blaming "America" for anything and certainly not by instinct, but by documented evidence. I see him asking the U.S. and other governments to take the same responsibility for their actions as they expect other governments to take.
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I admit, I did not recall his exact comments...here are a few:
quote:
CHENNAI, NOV. 10. Arguing that the war on Afghanistan constituted a greater terrorist act than the September 11 attacks on the United States, the renowned scholar, Prof. Noam Chomsky, today denounced state terrorism in all its forms.
The U.S., he said, did not seek the sanction of the United Nations Security Council for the war despite knowing that it could have obtained the sanction without any difficulty because it did not want to legitimise the need to approach the Council. The U.S. wanted to reserve its right to act unilaterally.
I don't think that exactly fits the definition of terrorist....
I guess you're not one of the people that has been terrorized by the U.S. You're not one of the millions murdered by the U.S. in Iraq or Afghanistan, or the thousands tortured and killed in South and Central America, or the millions tortured and murdered in Southeast Asia.
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Whadda ya know! Apparently, having the right to vote and have your basic rights protected does not a democracy make! Imagine that.
Chomsky has made the assertion that voting does not a democracy make. Witness the Soviet Union and Cuba. We have some pretty good rights protected here in the U.S. Chomsky will also tell you that we have it good in the U.S. However, rights are mostly a thing owned by those that can afford rights. Making things better in the U.S. even though we have it relatively good in the U.S. seems to be a terrible idea to most of the people in this forum.
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Continuing his criticism, Chomsky said, "The five countries who support America's action are all terrorist states themselves."
quote:
England and Germany are terrorist states...imagine that!
Yes, I can imagine that and have a pretty good idea that it's a pretty truthful statement.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 01/12/2002 14:24:11
Edited by - gorgo on 01/12/2002 14:26:05 |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2002 : 16:21:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Anti-Soviet and Anti-American have the same ring. One can't criticize either goverment, or one is labeled Anti-American, or as someone else pointed out Un-American, which may be a more used term here.
That has not been my experiance with many people. Certainly some conservatives will say that, but that's to be expected. I've never been called 'anti-American', even when I critisise our policy.
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I don't know which word you felt insulted by. It was not my intention to insult you. It seems in these forums (fora?) that calling people names - "moron" or "joke" for instance - is not a childish insult, but disagreeing with other people is a childish insult. I haven't yet learned why.
I know nothing about these forums, but I felt 'Stalinist' to be insulting. I apologize for my reaction, since that was not your intent.
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I guess you're not one of the people that has been terrorized by the U.S. You're not one of the millions murdered by the U.S. in Iraq or Afghanistan, or the thousands tortured and killed in South and Central America, or the millions tortured and murdered in Southeast Asia.
A: That is not what Chomsky was referring to. He was referring to our not seeking the UN's approval.
B: By 'soultheast Asia', are you referring to Vietnam? Because, as far as I know, the war in Vietnam ended in the 70's.
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Making things better in the U.S. even though we have it relatively good in the U.S. seems to be a terrible idea to most of the people in this forum.
Argumentum ad hominem.
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Yes, I can imagine that and have a pretty good idea that it's a pretty truthful statement.
Okay, I can see how one might see England's actions in Ireland terroristic, although I don't agree. But Germany?
P.S: Again, I'm sorry for misconstruing 'Stalinist'.
Cheerie bye!
Kindness eases change -Octavia Butler |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2002 : 20:27:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
That has not been my experiance with many people. Certainly some conservatives will say that, but that's to be expected. I've never been called 'anti-American', even when I critisise our policy.
Did I miss something or did you? Didn't someone in this thread use that term? Haven't people in other threads accused me of that term? I swear if I said the sky was blue in this place, someone would be insulted and tell me it was not a color at all, but a number. That wasn't directed at you.
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A: That is not what Chomsky was referring to. He was referring to our not seeking the UN's approval.
Your remark was about the terrorism of the U.S. I was talking about the terrorism of the U.S. What language am I speaking? I apologize, it's not your fault, but is there anyone here that understand the words that ARE COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH? (from Rush Hour)
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B: By 'soultheast Asia', are you referring to Vietnam? Because, as far as I know, the war in Vietnam ended in the 70's.
Again, I am talking about a pattern of U.S. terrorism.
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Argumentum ad hominem.
You said you didn't know much about this forum, so you are not qualified to speak to that. I attacked no one. To call someone a moron is an ad hominem attack. To explain what I think someone else's position is is not.
quote:
Okay, I can see how one might see England's actions in Ireland terroristic, although I don't agree. But Germany?
I said I could imagine, I didn't say that I knew. If he made such a remark, I'm not sure to what he was referring. If you can find the article and you think it's important, I'll ask him.
quote:
P.S: Again, I'm sorry for misconstruing 'Stalinist'.
Cheerie bye!
Kindness eases change -Octavia Butler
I apologize for being unclear. Thank you for allowing me to clarify that.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2002 : 21:50:15 [Permalink]
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Oh, Christ on a bike.
Lets move this argument to the politics folder, shall we?
And Rubysue, I enjoy your posts. There is no conspiracy to silence you.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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