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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2002 : 03:19:18
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Read this, and realize that it was written by an adult in our modern world. Especially the bit, about a third of the way down, describing a magic spell that went horribly wrong. This is almost frightening in its stupidity.
http://www.withoneaccord.org/store/potter.html
Free speech; excercise it or SHUT UP!
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 04:06:59 [Permalink]
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Well, it was rather unique. I thought it was a parody at first, but, I guess, some people will believe anything. However, I was wondering about the demon, the wizard and the telephone. Either the author has some really psychotic dreams, or the demon has been released onto the world to raise hell, and tell his story. I mean if the phone never existed, and the wizard had disappeared, that leaves only a few options. Either the demon told the author the story, or the author is the demon. Unless, of course, the author witnessed the entire event from his/her garage with the padded walls and wrap around waistcoat. I would like to know what happenned to the demon, though.
"There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher would not express it." Anonymous
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 08:41:20 [Permalink]
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From the above article:
quote:
Without going into all the plot details (which may be better known than the Bible)...
*opens mouth to respond, but realizes that everyone here will respond in kind to this and closes mouth with hand*
quote:
But Harry is the hero, and readers are being asked to identify with him. This is of critical importance, as we shall see later. Magic is serious business, as anyone will tell you who has practiced it. I was heavily involved in magic and sorcery for at least ten years and I believe I am qualified to speak about the subject with some authority and experience.
As what? An orphan, yes, I'm sure people will indentify with him. As a witch? Comments later...
quote:
While Colson does not exactly define his term, mechanical magic, he implies it is something on the order of ray guns or time travel in the science fiction genre — a fictitious construct designed to entice the reader and move the plot along — part of an entirely fictitious universe.
THANK YOU! Finally, someone realized that this stuff is fake(no offense to those who practice this stuff in real life, I meant the books)!
quote:
(In fairness to Mr. Colson, he later reversed his decision and now advises caution about Harry.)
The above was almost right after the last quote. I'm willing to bet that he was leaned on to change his position.
quote:
Demons are supposed to keep their word (??).
Right. And some of Falwell's best friends are gay atheists.
quote:
What follows is an actual account of a ceremonial magic rite that went very wrong. The magician had set up his circle in the garage after painting all the windows over with black paint. He done all of the ceremonies described earlier and had called up a demon into the triangle. The garage was filled with the smell of incense and the howling of the demon. It was not happy at being confined to the triangle.
After almost four hours of cursing and adjurations back and forth between the wizard and the demon, the room had grown very dark. There was no light left but the candles and the lurid coals of incense. The very chalk lines on the floor marking the circle and triangle seemed to shimmer in the gloom. The demon seemed just about to buckle to the will of the magician. Then, all of a sudden, the telephone rang!
Without thinking, the magician reached out of the circle to answer it. With a horrid scream, his entire body disappeared in a belch of flame, along with the demon. In a second, the garage was empty of all but the faithful, terrified scribe sitting in the corner and the smell of roasting human flesh. The magician was never heard from again, and left behind a wife and child. The ultimate irony of that tragedy is that there was no phone in the garage! |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 09:45:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
In the Biblical world-view, we pray to God and if He feels our request is in His will, then he grants it.
I learned from Carlin:
But what about god's plan? He is supposed to have a plan for everybody. What good is it if anyone with a 2 dollar prayer book can alter your plan? If they prayer is already within the plan then it will already happen, so why pray in the first place?
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but no one in these books is a professing Christian
I haven't read the books yes. Plan to over the summer after I reread Lord of the Rings for the first time in 15 year. But didn't they celebrate christmas in the book? Does a writer have to explicitly state every character's religious beliefs even if it has nothing to do with the story?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 10:03:12 [Permalink]
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Well, really!
The mind boggles. It will never fail to amaze me as to what can be read into what is virtually a fairy tale. And, if a little of the ol' BS is added in the review, it makes for a fine piece of fiction. The author is to be commended along with Ms. Rowlings for providing the subject.
Yeesh!
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 13:29:14 [Permalink]
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The story of the demon in the garage that this moron recounts strikes a nerve with me. I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but if I have, it's been quite a while, so here goes:
When I was maybe around 10 or 11 years old, my mother told me about a friend of her's who stopped going to church, and stopped living a "Christian life", whatever that means. One night, this lady was dozing on the couch, when all of a sudden, she felt a huge weight on her chest, and she became paralyzed!
Well, as you might imagine, this was quite frightening! So she called out to her husband in the other room. But instead of her normal voice, a deep, gutteral, demonic voice issued forth! (oooo, scary stuff, yes?!)
Regardless to say, the lady was "obviously" possessed (temporarily, of course) by a demon, because she didn't go to church. So she became quite religious again.
Here ya go, son! Real life, honest-to-God evidence that demons (and by extension Jehovah) are 100% real!
Of course, I had forgotten all about this story until a few years back, when I had become interested in skepticism (I don't think I had quite become an atheist yet). It could have been in "The Demon-Haunted World", or the Skeptic's Dictionary online, I don't remember, but I read about "sleep paralysis". A very real, and verifiable sleep-related phenomenon. It was almost exactly like what happened to my mom's friend (and no doubt countless so-called "alien abduction" victims.)
Why am I bringing this up here, you ask? Well, after this story, you may think my mom is a crazy, cruel person for telling her son such horror stories, but she's really a great person, just very credulous. She wasn't trying to scare me. She really believed this had happened.
Ya see, this guy and his demon story remind me of how common it is for people in power in Christianity to spout some nonsensical anecdote, and have their congregation suck it up without an ounce of critical thought.
I can just imagine the hundreds of Christian faithful that happen to read this nutcase's article, and now believe beyond doubt that this demon in the garage story really happened.
A man of God wouldn't lie, right?
[Edit: I'm thinking it was Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things"...]
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Sum Ergo Cogito
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 01/16/2002 13:31:48 |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 17:26:57 [Permalink]
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Tokyodreamer: The Demon Haunted World does talk about sleep paralysis in connection with alian abductions. (I've practically memorized the damn thing, so I know! :D)
James:
quote:
So, IOW, if God there is having a bad millenium, that'd really set back everyone. *rolls eyes*
Or if it's His 'time of the century', yeah.
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If you consume books like Harry Potter that promote a magical view of the universe, you will come to believe in those things - gradually.
Let's see, read them all about a year ago, have watched the movie twice, then read the books again.....
'Scuse me, I have to go sacrifice to Lillith
quote:
15) Approval of astrology[38]
UNTRUE! The kid's astrology teacher is a quack.
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Harry's witchy friends are made to appear very appealing next to these loutish family members, who could be seen as caricatures of "fundamentalist" Christians.
LOL! The Dursleys do act like fundies, now that I think of it.
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The demon will not want to obey, so there is usually a long period of threatening the demon, brandishing the sword at it and uttering horrid maledictions if it will not obey
Oh dear, sounds like my interactions with my computer...I threaten it and swear at it and it deletes my files and....
quote:
This is why most REAL wizards I have known have come upon bad ends. VERY bad ends.
No comment.
quote:
Demons are supposed to keep their word
Ha! They never do, try playing poker with the bastards and see! ;)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. People with no minds rewrite inspirational e-mail and send their new versions out over the Internet. -The Brothers Grinn.com
Edited by - Xev on 01/16/2002 17:30:05 |
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Peter de Blanc
New Member
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 20:50:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't remember, but I read about "sleep paralysis". A very real, and verifiable sleep-related phenomenon. It was almost exactly like what happened to my mom's friend (and no doubt countless so-called "alien abduction" victims.)
This actually happened to me once. I woke up in the middle of the night and found that I couldn't move at all. It felt as if I was in very deep water. In a minute or two it wore off and eventually I went back to sleep.
The next day I mentioned it to a friend of mine. "Oh yeah," he said, "crackpots think that aliens do that."
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rickm
Skeptic Friend
Canada
109 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2002 : 22:04:49 [Permalink]
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Back in my "believing days" I experienced the same also, I awoke from a nightmare temporarily unable to move. Silly me thought I was posessed. I wish I had been taught skepticism much earlier on in life.
Back then I did not have the luxury of the internet to debunk my catholic school taught superstitions, and fantasies.
"Let me off the plane, I am no missionary, I don't even believe in Jebus..... Oh Jebus please help me." Homer J. Simpson
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 02:25:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Why am I bringing this up here, you ask? Well, after this story, you may think my mom is a crazy, cruel person for telling her son such horror stories, but she's really a great person, just very credulous. She wasn't trying to scare me. She really believed this had happened.
Ya see, this guy and his demon story remind me of how common it is for people in power in Christianity to spout some nonsensical anecdote, and have their congregation suck it up without an ounce of critical thought.
I can just imagine the hundreds of Christian faithful that happen to read this nutcase's article, and now believe beyond doubt that this demon in the garage story really happened.
Although I haven't read the story that you all are talking about I just want to add:
IMO, the reason there are so many believers is, it doesn't even have to be something as tramatic as sleep paralysis. How about all the everyday things that people so want to believe in, like 'medical cures', cancers that either were or were not real but 'go away' due to prayer. They want to believe so much or are too ignorant to find out the scientific truth. (no ofence to your mom)
Rap Crap is to music what Paint by Numbers is to art. |
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 06:33:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
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Demons are supposed to keep their word
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Ha! They never do, try playing poker with the bastards and see! ;)
I hate to get off subject, (not really), but I know of one demon that never lied, never injured a human being, never broke a promise, and always had perfect advice. He was the biggest demon of 'em all--That is if the Devil could really be considered a demon. Anyway, I wonder who or what else could make that claim.
And, I have played poker with a couple of demons. I think that's why I haven't gambled in years.
I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed.
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 08:22:30 [Permalink]
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Sleep paralysis is very very scary; it used to happen frequently to me as a teen. While I never thought I was possessed, it did help me in my ghost-belief.
The episodes stopped for many many years until last summer when I had one again during which I was terrified when I felt the bed move because 'something' sat on it behind me (I was on my side). At that point, I thought to myself "Wait, this is sleep paralysis. I know what it is now." And I woke up. Rather cool.
My kids still love me. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 09:04:49 [Permalink]
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I've had a couple episodes of sleep paralysis, both associated with vivid dreams. It was a long time ago, and I'd never heard of the phenomenon. At that time I was toying with Castenada's ideas, and was half-ready to believe I'd had an out-of-body experience (or nearly).
Now I'm older, possibly wiser, and certainly more knowledgable about what I experienced. I'm very happy it happened, though; it provides some insight into the feeling of the "numinous" that underlies so much of religion and cultism. I mean, those episodes of sleep paralysis felt incredibly meaningful!
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 10:55:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed.
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell
I got yer' blood of Christ right here, Osama. ;)
Right, I've had sleep paralysis happen to me, after I knew what it was, so I just laid there for about 15 minutes thinking 'Oh, so this must be sleep paralysis'
It was still kinda scary.
My uncle was a wizard. He'd walk down the street every friday and turn into a bar.
*Xev runs away before people start throwing rotton tomatoes at her*
Edited by - Xev on 01/17/2002 15:34:51 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 13:59:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Right. Hey, Trish, you get that blood sacrifice I sent you in time? 
James, next time send it packaged in ice, OK. Yeesh! Had my neighbors wondering what I was doing. 
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There is no better demonstration of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. It underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've known. Sagan |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2002 : 20:15:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Right. Hey, Trish, you get that blood sacrifice I sent you in time?
James, next time send it packaged in ice, OK. Yeesh! Had my neighbors wondering what I was doing.
ROTFLMAO
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." -Buddha |
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