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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2002 : 12:31:00
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It's been pretty quiet outside the World Economic Forum in New York. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,44669,00.html
Perhaps the anarchist blackshirts are busy elsewhere, or they just want to show respect for the "suits and pigs" (as one of them called the World Trade Center victims) who still lie buried in the rubble a few blocks away.
This seems unlikely to me. It seems that the delegates themselves, a Madison Avenue dream cast of "celebrities, clergy, and business leaders", are taking the would-be rioters' side. I coughed up a major hairball over this incredible bit of hypocrisy from Monopolist-in-Chief Bill Gates:
"'People who feel the world is tilted against them will spawn the kind of hatred that is very dangerous for all of us,' Gates said. 'I think it's a healthy sign that there are demonstrators in the streets. They are raising the question of 'is the rich world giving back enough?'"
Similar sensitivity-mongering can be heard from the other billionaires and PR flacks in attendance. The "anti-corporate" movement receives millions in funding from the likes of the Ford Foundation and Ted Turner. I've said before that the blackshirts are essentially the commando arm of the Hollywood/Madison Avenue Cultural Axis, incited by mass market products like Che posters and the corporate entertainment product, er rock band, Rage Against the Machnine. This corporate fifth columnism in New York is just more evidence that the whole "anti-globalization" movement is a fraud, designed to serve the interests of the most powerful corporations at the expense of real people and the civilized world in general.
Look at who they target: the timber industry, the nuclear industry, and the whaling industry. Yessiree, some big players there, especially in advertising. Politically, they champion the Islamic world ($trillion+ market, and notably susceptible to propaganda) against Israel (smaller market than Chicago and riddled with skeptics). They don't target the SUV industry, the advertising and propaganda industry, or, Allah forbid, the entertainment industry.
Abducting UFOs and conspiring against conspiracy theorists since 1980.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2002 : 15:01:35 [Permalink]
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Where do you get your information?
quote:
It's been pretty quiet outside the World Economic Forum in New York.
The "anti-corporate" movement receives millions in funding from the likes of the Ford Foundation and Ted Turner. I've said before that the blackshirts are essentially the commando arm of the Hollywood/Madison Avenue Cultural Axis, incited by mass market products like Che posters and the corporate entertainment product, er rock band, Rage Against the Machnine. This corporate fifth columnism in New York is just more evidence that the whole "anti-globalization" movement is a fraud, designed to serve the interests of the most powerful corporations at the expense of real people and the civilized world in general.
Look at who they target: the timber industry, the nuclear industry, and the whaling industry. Yessiree, some big players there, especially in advertising. Politically, they champion the Islamic world ($trillion+ market, and notably susceptible to propaganda) against Israel (smaller market than Chicago and riddled with skeptics). They don't target the SUV industry, the advertising and propaganda industry, or, Allah forbid, the entertainment industry.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 13:14:08 [Permalink]
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[quote]
Where do you get your information?
[quote]
Obviously, it does not all come from the same source, and I am not going to write a generalized essay at your behest. Now, for which piece(s) of information do you specifically need a source?
Abducting UFOs and conspiring against conspiracy theorists since 1980. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 13:27:43 [Permalink]
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I guess I'd have to write a generalized essay to answer that question. There is a lot written and implied here.
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 13:36:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
I've said before that the blackshirts are essentially the commando arm of the Hollywood/Madison Avenue Cultural Axis, incited by mass market products like Che posters and the corporate entertainment product, er rock band, Rage Against the Machnine. This corporate fifth columnism in New York is just more evidence that the whole "anti-globalization" movement is a fraud, designed to serve the interests of the most powerful corporations at the expense of real people and the civilized world in general.
I don't understand this at all. If I inserted the word skeptic for blackshirt and Carl Sagan for Che posters does that deligitimicize the skeptic movement and show that skeptics actually are unknowingly supporting wishy washiism?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 13:47:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't understand this at all. If I inserted the word skeptic for blackshirt and Carl Sagan for Che posters does that deligitimicize the skeptic movement and show that skeptics actually are unknowingly supporting wishy washiism?
How does Carl Sagan and skeptics fit in this description of hypocrisy?
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 14:13:37 [Permalink]
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Frankly, I don't understand any of it. I'm not sure of his point. Is he agreeing with the real anarchists because he doesn't like what Bill Gates has to say? Is he saying that there are no people who honestly think that tools like the WTO and NAFTA spread poverty? What is Piltdown's point?
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn
Edited by - gorgo on 02/05/2002 14:14:11
Edited by - gorgo on 02/05/2002 14:28:00 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 14:52:01 [Permalink]
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My comment regarded only the "blackshirt" comment and not Bill Gates' comment or any other point. I don't see what my comment had to do with hypocrisy.
When a few big names come out and make comments that some deem to be hypocritical it does not mean that an entire movement or school of thought is a fraud.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 15:01:07 [Permalink]
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Certainly not, nor does it mean that because what Bill Gates said sounded like what Noam Chomsky said (who is certainly not a blackshirt) does that mean that the two agree. Nor does it mean that because Piltdown says he coughs up hairballs has he convinced me that he is a cat.
quote:
My comment regarded only the "blackshirt" comment and not Bill Gates' comment or any other point. I don't see what my comment had to do with hypocrisy.
When a few big names come out and make comments that some deem to be hypocritical it does not mean that an entire movement or school of thought is a fraud.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
"Not one human life should be expended in this reckless violence called a war against terrorism." - Howard Zinn |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 15:05:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
This corporate fifth columnism in New York is just more evidence that the whole "anti-globalization" movement is a fraud, designed to serve the interests of the most powerful corporations at the expense of real people and the civilized world in general.
Designed by who? For what purpose?
Xev-Come not between the creationist and his pseudoscience-Bellringer |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 15:10:13 [Permalink]
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I also think that, in regards to what Gates said, you should look at his record of charitable contribution. It's in the billions. Put that together with the quote above and it does not seem all that hypocritical at all.
I also think that what he said is true and a point that needed to be made regardless of what anyone thinks of Bill Gates.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 19:57:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
I don't see what my comment had to do with hypocrisy.
I'm sorry, I didn't make myself more clear.
I meant that Piltdown is describing and criticising the ridiculous hypocritical behavior of so-called "activists", who are really (knowingly or unknowingly) in bed with the "evil" corporations they supposedly stand against.
I didn't mean you were being hypocritical, nor was your comment. I meant that plugging in skeptics and Carl Sagan make no sense in this context (and in Piltdown's point).
My apologies to Piltdown if I've totally misrepresented his words.
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Sum Ergo Cogito
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 02/05/2002 19:58:40 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 20:03:57 [Permalink]
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A little tangential tidbit about the band, Rage Against the Machine: (These guys are such morons; though I do like some of their songs  )
http://reason.com/0010/fe.bd.rage.shtml
(Hey, they even mention Noam!  )
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Sum Ergo Cogito
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 02/05/2002 20:10:29 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 20:18:58 [Permalink]
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I think you still miss my point TD. What I mean is just because activists might share some common viewpoints with corporations or whatever does not invalidate their cause.
To me it's like the way many religious people point to communism and Stalin and use that to show how bad atheists are. Yes atheists share something with communism but for different reasons. Communism strove to eliminate religion so it would not compete with the state but real atheists just don't believe. Do you see what I mean now?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 20:57:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
What I mean is just because activists might share some common viewpoints with corporations or whatever does not invalidate their cause.
Hmm. That may be true on some levels, but at some point "sharing common viewpoints" with people you constantly and consistently protest as "evil" becomes hyposcrisy, yes?
I mean, we're talking about people here who are commercializing (or actively participating in the commercialization) of activism.
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2002 : 23:39:55 [Permalink]
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Just because madison avenue decides to make activism chic does not make their cause phony. That commercialization is not new. Various shirts, posters, music, books and all that has been around for decades. And it's fair to say that a lot of people buy the products, wear the shirts, listen to the music and read the literature just because it's some phase in their life. But there are also the people that believe in these issues strongly and it's not fair to take that element that jumps on the bandwagon(so to speak)and denounce them all and everything they say and do. Activism is a bit more complicated than that and it's not all kids spouting rhetoric they don't understand because it's some fad. Many people out there are informed and are very serious about what they fight for.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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