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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
 Posted - 05/30/2001 : 20:35:24 [Permalink]
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Rift, Lisa, Trish, et al.
my take on the "Nick question" is that, while you (collectively) and I may differ with him over methods, we're all still pretty much on the same side.
Rather than going back and forth over the "do we respond or not" question, I'd rather save my energies for the never-ending battle with the Pipers and the Jack Whites and the occasional Spoqs.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 00:07:48 [Permalink]
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True, but he's being short-sighted and narrow minded regarding the issue. Half the point of Bad Astronomy is to deal with so much of the garbage that is propagated by ignorance and lack of critical thinking skills. He doesn't seem to understand this point, rather goes on about us giving these yoyos publicity. It's not publicity when these things are exposed and shown for what they are. If we don't look for the bad stuff we are then unprepared and scrambling for answers when we are presented with the questions they will surely raise.
Sorry for the rant, but it is, to me, worth the effort to find this and be prepared for the worst.
Spinnin' my wheels and gettin' no where - fast |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 00:48:22 [Permalink]
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If no one speaks out, it could make crackpot theories seem more credible.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 01:32:49 [Permalink]
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@tomic, I asked Nick about this, although he hasn't responded yet.
I think he wants us to speak out against crackpost theories, but not to provide links on the BA board to said crackpots, because that provided advertisement.
This is where Trish, Rift and I don't agree with him. I'm sort of mentoring a 14 year old right now. I want her to see for herself the tricks and manipulations these tricksters use. I figure, if she learns to recognize it now, when she's 14, no one will ever be able to pull crap on her, no matter how pretty their pie charts are.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done
Edited by - Lisa on 05/31/2001 04:50:02 |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 01:42:40 [Permalink]
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True Zandermann, we basically are on the same side with Nick, but our methods differ greatly. I can take Megan to every legit Science and Astronomy site on the whole freakin web. For questions I can't answer, I have friends on base with advanced degrees, I'll impose, I don't care. But when she asks "why does Dr. Crankcase say..", it would be nice if I was already aware of Dr. Crankcase, and what he's claiming.
Even better, if Megan and I go to Dr. Crankcase's site, and I can explain why this is "Bad Astronomy". Forewarned is forearmed.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 02:07:01 [Permalink]
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I think you really do need to provide a link. People should be able to go and look for themselves and make up their own mind. Sure it might provide a little more traffic but it seems more fair to show both sides to an argument. You also don't want to look like you are afraid of what is being said somewhere.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 02:17:53 [Permalink]
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I think that's the key point of my whole argument, @tomic. People DO need to see the source material, they need to see this stuff and make up their own minds or we are as bad as the nutcases. They need to ask hard questions.
One of my favorite examples of this is Talkorigins.org. It has the BEST listing of creationist sites on the web. When was the last time you saw ONE evolution site link on a creationist site? This is the main difference between the two sides, I believe. One side wants to keep you in the dark, the other side wants you to get as much information on both sides as possible.
I think the attitude of "ignore it and it will go away" is nearly as bad as "we don't want you to see that stuff because it's from the devil". But that's just me. :)
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 02:31:57 [Permalink]
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I tried to post a link to a place called "Recreational Christianity". I hit preview and it didn't work. I'll see what I can do later. Provides links to the most weird stuff you've ever seen. It's run by a guy who calls himself "Psycho Dave". We've exchanged a few e-mails, and he's actually very polite and helpful. I'll see what I can do.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 10:37:10 [Permalink]
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Actually there is a site that lists many pro-evolution links. I was following referrers to SFN one day and found it but can't recall the URL right now. This is quite rare though. Few creationist sites give evolution links. Mark Purchase went so far as only printing parts of letters he wanted people to see.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Rift
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 19:49:24 [Permalink]
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That's quite suprising @tomic. I've visted untold numbers of creationist's sites and I don't recall any that linked to an evolution site or a skeptic site. I have been to sites that were so intelligent and resonable you wonder why they still latch on to a 8,000 year old myth...
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 20:08:18 [Permalink]
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This is the only site I have seen that does this. If I see the site again in the referrers I will post it.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 20:20:17 [Permalink]
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Hi everyone, I'm back from my business trip and trying to catch up on the latest on both boards. This discussion is becoming quite interesting.
Speaking of creationist sites, I just did a Google search for information on the accelerating universe because someone asked the question over on the BAB. To my dismay, the third search link was associated with some creationist site run by someone at the University of North Carolina. I don't know about the rest of you, but it really burns my butt (oooo, I can cuss a little over here) that someone can use an .edu domain and put this type of trash out there for unsupecting young minds to stumble across. If there is a person searching for good scientific information, they may think that a major university is refuting the findings of science. There is a small disclaimer on this site that it is not associated with the University of North Carolina or the State of North Carolina (gee, that should make us first amendment fans feel comfortable, right? It royally pisses me off that a state-sponsored university domain can be used to host religious content). Here's the link, so you can go and yark up your dinner over more fundie b.s.
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/index.html
By the way, "David Plaisted", who runs this site, has a bunch of links to other creationist sites, but not a single link to any evolutionary science sites (gee, why am I not surprised. This is probably going to make some folks who lurk about this board quite unhappy, but why are fundie Christians such unbelievable cowards and liars?
rubysue (back in business after visiting Florida).
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 20:26:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
but why are fundie Christians such unbelievable cowards and liars?
I don't know that they all are, but the outspoken ones that like to debate have little choice.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Zandermann
Skeptic Friend
USA
431 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2001 : 21:15:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
(Rift) People DO need to see the source material, they need to see this stuff and make up their own minds or we are as bad as the nutcases. They need to ask hard questions.
(Trish) If we don't look for the bad stuff we are then unprepared and scrambling for answers when we are presented with the questions they will surely raise.
(Lisa) But when she asks "why does Dr. Crankcase say..", it would be nice if I was already aware of Dr. Crankcase, and what he's claiming. Even better, if Megan and I go to Dr. Crankcase's site, and I can explain why this is "Bad Astronomy". Forewarned is forearmed.
As I've said before, we're all in agreement here...I just don't think we're ever going to get Nick to join in.
I guess I'd like to see us 'agree to disagree' over methods and concentrate on the more important task of going after the mis-information that's out there.
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