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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
 Posted - 06/06/2001 : 20:28:02
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I often wonder what makes the difference between the emergence one human being's skepticism from another's withdrawal from questioning altogether. I realize that a lot of conditioning, skeptical and otherwise, comes from within our nuclear families.
When did you and you and you become skeptical? Do you remember the circumstances? I think I have already related my own failure to become proselytized by my parents into silly beliefs that are often foisted upon toddlers. The "pleasure of finding things out" (i.e., Richard Feynman) was always present from Day One. I think I was born with a kind of questioning mentality which made bamboozling impossible. I have never fallen for a "con" -- ever! At least, I have never been aware of it.
Of course, with skepticism, we join a new level of fearlessness. I am certain that you all have some stories to tell -- even the true believers with their opposite experiences.
There are a great many tremendously interesting writers here. You have sparked my curiosity to extremes. How did you get this way? This is a marvelous site, because of its participators.
ljbrs
If you KNEW better, you'd DO better.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2001 : 21:06:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
When did you and you and you become skeptical? Do you remember the circumstances?
Quite clearly actually. I've always loved science and asking the hard questions of teachers and peers. I even asked the 'skeptical' questions in grade school - catholic grade school - for which I received unsatisfactory answers. Usual answers received were - 'That's a question for theologians not little girls.', 'Only gawd knows that dear.' and countless other stock answers to questions people don't know how to ask. Fortunately these early discouraging answers haven't prevented me from asking questions.
Outside of that, there were some issues in my childhood which are covered in another post that was a catalyst for my conversion from xianity to atheism. Most of my story can be found under Religion:A long winded invitation.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2001 : 22:03:35 [Permalink]
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Oh, dear, Catholicism. That must have been very, very difficult. With the women in my family, there were some silly beliefs related to, on the one side, Quakers (Society of Friends) and on the other side, Puritans. Of course, Puritans no longer existed at the time, because they became too picky about who could be pure enough to achieve membership. It ended up with a small membership of pure souls -- mostly at an age when they could not be anything but pure! Puritans also did some extremely nasty stuff.
Well, being forced to sit and "contemplate the Lord" all day on Sundays after church gave me a lot of "contemplating time" to discard the silliness of their beliefs. I am not an atheist, but much, much worse. I simply will believe that "whatever exists, exists" and leave it at that. Then I will not need to waste any more time on it. It is in science (astronomy and physics) that I have my greatest interests -- all positive.
I got into a lot of trouble with the female side of my family for my skepticism. My father was a doll (and not a real believer). I am thankful for that.
ljbrs
If you KNEW better, you'd DO better!
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2001 : 22:25:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
When did you and you and you become skeptical?
I'd say I was lucky in that, compared to some of the stories I've read, mine seems very tame by comparison.
For me, I'd say it was because I wasn't in church a lot when I was a kid. I hardly remember going to church in a Sunday. I more remember watching cartoons!
Also, IMO, it was because my Dad believed and I just didn't want to be like him. Not that he was a bad guy, mind you, no, it's just that he don't have that many good points that I'd want.
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." -Master Yoda |
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rubysue
Skeptic Friend
USA
199 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2001 : 22:28:14 [Permalink]
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I'm not sure when I made the break with my childhood indoctrination. I was raised a Lutheran in a church that was not "fire and brimstone" and had no problems accepting the findings of science. I had a love of science (especially astronomy) from an early age, but I also enjoyed the church and the friends I had there (I even served on the Church council when I was in college). However, when I applied my love of language and consistency to the stories in the Bible , I began to have problems with unquestioning belief. When fundamentalists began to flex their muscles in the 80's, I resented their hypocrisy and lack of reasoning and became more entrenched in my secular humanism.
At some point in my young adult life, I moved from faith to doubt and began a serious study of skeptical thinking. I joined the Council for Secular Humanists and CSICOP and poured through their periodicals. I consider myself a humanist and agnostic (e.g., I don't know what to believe about a deity) and confess to having occasional lapses of theist thought, which I attribute to the complexities and mysteries of how the human mind evolved (another topic for a great discussion - maybe I'll start it one of these days).
rubysue
If your head is wax, don't walk in the sun.
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2001 : 22:53:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
it was because my Dad believed and I just didn't want to be like him.
For me, it was quite the opposite. My Dad has been a skeptic as long as I can remember, and I wanted to be like him.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2001 : 23:32:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
I got into a lot of trouble with the female side of my family for my skepticism. My father was a doll (and not a real believer). I am thankful for that.
This will shed a little light also, my father is a non practicing Southern Baptist. However, I spent the summers with my bible thumping grandfather who insisted I was going to hell for not having true faith, being catholic.
I still seem to be somewhat affected by my indoctrination with the - catholic guilt trip - syndrome.
quote:
However, when I applied my love of language and consistency to the stories in the Bible , I began to have problems with unquestioning belief.
Yes, I went to the bible for answers to questions and had real issues with many of the stories. Not just the lack of consistency but with the text itself. There were a lot of acts commited in the name of god or by order that I could not swallow blindly.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 00:21:06 [Permalink]
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I first started to raise an eyebrow at organized religion back in the summer of '67, during Methodist summer bible camp.
-sounds ookie, doesn't it?
Had been there the summer before too,...fun enough, new friends for the week, goirls, swimming, cabins,...bybull study thru the week. Thursday was to be very, very quite...-hush-hush, reverant; then the tear-jerker sermon at the mount. Everyone cries/hugs afterwards....'cept me. Felt sorta good, but no major hooha.
Enter the next summer,....same exact week schedule as year before. Here I am, in the 8th grade,...Hm,...this is kind of a deal they've got going here. Stood back, in a observational critiquing way and watched the week and Thursday eve unfurl just like last year. (early self-developement of skepticism?)
Ditto for my 9th grade camp there. (Texas).
Telling myself...."this is cattle mentalilty here,..sturring sermon, kids go ga-ga, all emotional. No, this is self-induced.
Well, I went around the next 3 years quite aloof to religion.
Think it was English 101 in college when one required reading was Bertrand Russell's "Why I'm not a Christian" that it all came together.
You could say I had been toteing around this guilt complex at times..."heaven or hell, heaven or hell, nope - you're not allowed to think that - analyze this or that."
Voices in the brain!!! EEKKK!
Russell's book hit the nail on the head for me.
Been atheist, guilt-free now for some 30 years.
I do my 10% tithes with volunteer time around the community, helping gramma's across the street, mending broken wings.
Outside of that...it's a great big garden universe and it's exciting to be alive and a part of it all!
Evolution is both fact and theory.
Creationism is neither. |
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Grove
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 02:06:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
I often wonder what makes the difference between the emergence one human being's skepticism from another's withdrawal from questioning altogether. I realize that a lot of conditioning, skeptical and otherwise, comes from within our nuclear families.
When did you and you and you become skeptical? Do you remember the circumstances? I think I have already related my own failure to become proselytized by my parents into silly beliefs that are often foisted upon toddlers. The "pleasure of finding things out" (i.e., Richard Feynman) was always present from Day One. I think I was born with a kind of questioning mentality which made bamboozling impossible. I have never fallen for a "con" -- ever! At least, I have never been aware of it.
Of course, with skepticism, we join a new level of fearlessness. I am certain that you all have some stories to tell -- even the true believers with their opposite experiences.
There are a great many tremendously interesting writers here. You have sparked my curiosity to extremes. How did you get this way? This is a marvelous site, because of its participators.
ljbrs
If you KNEW better, you'd DO better.
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Grove
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 02:11:47 [Permalink]
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Good question...I have no definate answer...But I hate people being so gullible and so easily fooled...I know it's more fun to believe, and I'm sure it adds something to whatever is missing in their lives...There is nothing there, they see what they want to see...And with no basis and poor backing.....Oh yeah, and it's not much of a 'con' if you knew about it :) ...
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 04:24:48 [Permalink]
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I have never really been very religious, but I did get a good interest in science from an early age, I'm the type who wants to know how and why something works, not just press the buttons and see it work.
I did have some RE in school, but I didn't really take it all in or remember it very well (I did have a little bit of belief, but not much).
That was during the time when I was starting to really read up on science, it didn't take me very long to conclude that there was no god, it wasn't particulary hard for me, as I never really acknoledged any existance of god (I acted as though there was no god, I don't even know whether I actually did believe or not).
For a long time I was an apathic secularist, although I did develop some paranormal beliefs during early secondary school, didn't take all that long for me to discard those as well (only a few years).
The internet really helped, it gave me a good resource for learning and a place to find out more about critical thinking, its also good because it gives me a lot of religious sites to laugh at.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 08:19:56 [Permalink]
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I had always been partial to science, even though I grew up in a big family with strong Southern Baptist beliefs. In High School, I started going to an Episcopal church with some friends of mine. Quite a shock going from Baptist to Episcopal. They were so lax, to the point of being ridiculous. I just started realizing that these people weren't here to worship, it was just that thing they did on Sundays before lunch.
I pretty much kept my basic belief in a God, but didn't really think about it all that much. After college, I was working at Motorola doing phone tech support. I had internet access, so I'd spend all day talking on the phone and browsing. I don't remember why, but one day I found myself at www.skepdic.com . I pretty much read the whole thing, and started reading stuff on the suggested reading list (Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World, etc.) It just all made sense to me. I had a 'moment of enlightenment' I guess. I realized that I could no longer honestly believe in god or the supernatural, even if I wanted to. Basically, my eyes were opened to reality, and I accepted it.
[By the way, shouldn't this be under General Discussion or something?]
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Gambatte kudasai!
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 06/07/2001 08:20:49 |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 09:30:56 [Permalink]
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I remember in middle school studying greek/roman mythology and wondering at the time "what is the difference between a religion and a myth? Several thousand years ago these myths were the religion." The answer I came up with was "If anyone still believes in it". Since then I had not been very religious.
I loved the paranormal show like In Search Of. Tended to accept their highly biased presentation. Especialy loved the UFO shows, but those I could easily see through 90% of the 'evidence'.
First heard of skepticism when two friends started the local skeptics group. I read their first newsletter and became the first paying member. Since then I've done a lot of reading on many subjects. Also learned more about different religions in the next year than I had learned in the previous 20. Which brought me to being an agnostic (don't believe in a god, but can't totaly rule out the possibility), much to the concern of my extreemly catholic mother.
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 10:23:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Yes, I went to the bible for answers to questions and had real issues with many of the stories. Not just the lack of consistency but with the text itself. There were a lot of acts commited in the name of god or by order that I could not swallow blindly.
It seems to me that the number 1 reason for people to convert to athiesm/agnostic/humanism is actualy Reading the Bible! Ya got mass destruction, genocide, rape, incest, human sacrifice all done with god's approval if not his actual bidding! Heck, some of the early books would fit right in with those sword & sorcery novels where the evil god sends out his minions to conquer. In this case the evil minions are the good guys out to claim their 'promised land'.
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JRB
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2001 : 12:28:27 [Permalink]
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I think I've pretty much always been a skeptic, due to 3 factors:
1). My family wasn't religious at all. Yeah we went to church a couple times, but that was it - the God thing wasn't a part of our lives.
2). I've always been inquisitive, wondering "Why/What/Where?" for life, reality etc.
For me, science has all the answers - we live in a natural world and all can/will be explained naturally.
No hocus-pocus, ghosts, spirits, gods, etc.
3). My 7th grade English teacher made us read all about Greek and Norse Mythology - and I wondered - if these were once believed in and then discarded, who's to say the same thing won't happen to today's religions? They're basically the same stories!
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2001 : 19:58:31 [Permalink]
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What a marvelous bunch of people write at this site! Your stories are so very interesting. Of course, you will frighten the sweet little "true believers" away. So many of you have just the right answers to send them scurrying back to their Creationist sites. We all are perdition personified. Poor things...
This site is a marvelous site, because of the participants. You are all just marvelous, and interesting in what you have related about your experiences, and I am afraid I have become hooked on this site for this reason.
I spend a lot of my life working around religious people. I would never bother them about their religion (or of my lack of one), so long as they keep it to themselves around me. Having something like "whatever exists, exists" as a belief helps to keep the "true believers" from frothing at the mouth. If what they believe is true, then I would be a believer. Of course, I never think that what they believe is true, so that settles that.
I have read most of the books you all have mentioned. Wonderful reading!
Now I will go back to look for other things which you have written at "Friends"...
ljbrs
If you KNEW better, you'd DO better!
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