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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2002 : 19:55:15
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2002 : 23:38:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Perhaps with a little more time (I'm giving it 2 years), I'll stop thinking up pithy insults for airport "security".
Why put security in ""? Have you been to an airport lately? While Ed truly enjoyed the patdown the young lady gave him, I seriously doubt the need to check my Birkenstock sandals for a bomb. Plus, a lady who's bitching that she can't find her eyelash curler is hardly pre-disposed to blow up a plane.
Do these people have a clue as to what they're looking for? I get the feeling they're looking for a bunch of red sticks labled 'tnt' with a 'big ben' alarm clock attached. This is fine if the training videos are produced by the Warner Bros cartoon division.
Do I have the answers? No, but then again, I'm not the one who's paid to. As a member of the flying public, I have plenty of questions, starting with, who are they kidding?
LOL. Great post.
Who doesn't think the same way?
I've already made up my mind I'm NOT going to fly until they clear up the mess and get professional about it. It's about time for our bi-annual trip to Thailand to visit the relitives but I don't care if it takes 10 years I refuse to put up with what's going on at the airports. I hope the FBI, CIA, whoever is monitoring this site so someone will let the government know, at least someone is speaking out about their incompetence.
I'd write the White House directly but then they only put the letter in my file. Whoops, I've said too much already.
Shall we all start a protest/boycott and not fly anywhere, that'll show 'em. If only!
(But please wait until I have a chance to buy stock in Am Trak.)
BTW, I've been to London and they have, over the years, had so much more to fear from constant threats of terrorist, they know how to get people in and out of air ports the right way, IMO. Are you listening USA? Do it for real, not for show.
*
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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seb
New Member
France
40 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 03:25:11 [Permalink]
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One week ago I came back from China, one of the guy with me had forgotten a nail file in his pocket (1cm long and not sharp at all) but he had to leave it to the security guards. But has far as I saw whatever the country do not expect internal flight to have the same security level as an international flight.
I do not know for sure how it is in USA but has there is quite a lot of competition for airplane transportation I suppose lot of company reduce their security in order to lower their prices?
Anyway lets face it taking a plane is still far more safe than any other transportation and the chance of your plan beeing hijack is very low.
Seb |
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DVF
Skeptic Friend
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 10:52:17 [Permalink]
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I fly quite a bit, about once a month. The security is completely different from one airport to the next. The methodology is full of enough holes that it would be no real challenge to slip something by. The hard drive on my laptop, for instance, shows up on the x-ray as a rectangle of metal. Could be anything, but they dont even turn the thing on.
I'm not about to stop flying. I have things to do. But the only thing I'm relying on for my safety is the odds.
Um... Is that my beer? |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 10:56:58 [Permalink]
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I'd forgotten about the laptop computer bit. If you haven't been in an airport lately, check this out. Security makes people turn on their laptop computers. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 17:49:52 [Permalink]
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It's supposed to prove that it's really a laptop computer, and not a bomb in a laptop case.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 17:51:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'd forgotten about the laptop computer bit. If you haven't been in an airport lately, check this out. Security makes people turn on their laptop computers. I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.
That it works and isn't packed with explosives. Yeesh!
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There is no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our world. It underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've known. Sagan |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 18:21:59 [Permalink]
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A person who's bright enough to build a bomb that can fit into a laptop, can probably configure a triggering mechanism that won't be affected by the computer's on/off.
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2002 : 19:35:54 [Permalink]
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Take a look inside your laptop sometime. There's zero room in there for explosives, if it's a functional computer.
Laptops are portable computers, and therefore they are designed as compactly as their designers can possibly make them. If you want to make one that blows up, you'd have to gut it and replace the contents with your C4 (or whatever) and triggering mechanism. The only other option would be to replace one of the optional devices (if any), such as the CD-ROM or extra battery -- but these are small and that much explosive would not be a major threat.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 03:15:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm not about to stop flying. I have things to do. But the only thing I'm relying on for my safety is the odds.
That's right ruin it for everyone!
I don't like unions either but sometimes ya have to stick together to make things work.
*
Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
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Tim
SFN Regular
USA
775 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 05:54:01 [Permalink]
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Well, I don't often fly, and haven't flown on a commercial airliner since well before 9/11. However, I did hear a local radio talk show host mention using the Israeli national airlines as a model.
Furthermore, from my experience, if we keep moving toward private security in our airports, we'll probably end up paying a terrible price. I recall a recent event where the media picked up on an airport security guard sound asleep on the job, and then made a major issue of it. Apparently, they haven't been around private security guards very often. Let's face it, most security guards work some of the worse hours and schedules, and at minimum wage to boot. Then, these people are left generally to their own devices. What do you expect?
I do not propose that all security guards are lax on the job, but it only takes one, and from the number I see asleep at the gates of nearby chemical plants, this one would not be hard to find. Besides, what's a private security guard going to do with a terrorist--Pray him to death?
I worry about this security issue because the river between Baton Rouge and New Orleans is one long line of chemical plants and refineries. The only thing that stands between a well trained suicide bomber, and a chain reaction that could kill millions here and near Houston is nothing more than a lone security guard and a chain link fence.
Maybe Garrette has some input on this. I seem to remember that he works in security.
"The Constitution ..., is a marvelous document for self-government by Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society." P. Robertson |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 06:51:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Maybe Garrette has some input on this. I seem to remember that he works in security.
Funny you should mention this. Try this issue of Randi's newsletter back in 2000. The e-mail about airport security is from me. The unnamed airport where I talked about the FAA and management practices is DIA (Denver International). The other is Logan airport in Boston.
http://www.randi.org/jr/10-08-2000.html
quote:
I recall a recent event where the media picked up on an airport security guard sound asleep on the job, and then made a major issue of it.
This is at the Lousville airport (we call ourselves "International" because UPS is based here though no passenger flights from here cross international borders), 15 minutes from my house. The guard was fired and the airport shut down for a couple of hours while they unloaded every plane and researched every passenger. Never mind somebody who, realizing they would be re-searched, simply stashed any items in any of a thousand suitable spots before they got back to the screeners.
I'm hoping Louisville becomes one of the major airports that requires a federal security director; I've downloaded the job requirements and pay system. I can do it and it pays pretty darn well.
But I'd enter it sort of jaded and expecting little of substance to change. My brother flies for American Airlines and my best friend from high school flies for United. I've talked with them about what the new security guys will face.
Airport Director: So, Security Guy, how will you improve security here?
Security Guy: Well, so far I've only conducted assessments on screening procedures but we have significant gaps that can be closed with x, y, and z.
AD: Great. Get it done.
SG: I'm glad you feel that way. I'll need 2 million dollars.
AD: Oh. Well, drop y and z and just go with x. But scale it back to one-half x to start. Make sure it looks good, too.
SG: One-half x is worse than no x at all.
AD: Really? I'm glad you understand budgeting. You think you can do something about the uniforms your guys wear?
--
In my experience, most security professionals are the last to advocate spending lots of money and buying gadgets. We know the adverse affects of relying on appearance as opposed to substance.
quote:
Let's face it, most security guards work some of the worse hours and schedules, and at minimum wage to boot. Then, these people are left generally to their own devices. What do you expect?
If left to their own devices then it's a management problem. The wage, however, is a significant issue. If you want Delta Force level security, you must pay enough to get Delta Force quality people.
My kids still love me. |
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DVF
Skeptic Friend
USA
96 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 07:33:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Take a look inside your laptop sometime. There's zero room in there for explosives, if it's a functional computer.
I open the things all the time, it's my job. There's actually quite a bit of usable space on most models. Many of them have bays for second bateries or hard drives. As an experiment last night I took an old non-functioning dell and some of my son's playdough. I was able to fit 3 cans worth in without direct contact to any of the circuitry. Now, I know squat about demolitions, but some military friends assured me that with that much volume a plane could be seriously crippled.
In the last 2 months I've flown through Chicago, Hartford/Bradley, JFK, Phili, New Orleans, St Louis, Houston/Hobby, and Gulfport MS. Not once has anyone turned on my laptop.
Um... Is that my beer? |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 09:14:10 [Permalink]
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On "Animal Planet" I've seen a few shows regarding explosives sniffing dogs. In my travels I've seen very few. Anyone here knowledgable in this area. Are the pups that effective? Better than the electronic gagets?
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 09:42:06 [Permalink]
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If only we could replicate puppy dog noses. Somethings dogs can smell, somethings they can't. But when dogs can follow a scent for over five miles, yeah, they're pretty good. And think, a lot of explosives are probably going to have a distinctive smell - even if we poor senseless humans can't smell them.
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There is no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our world. It underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've known. Sagan |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2002 : 09:51:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
On "Animal Planet" I've seen a few shows regarding explosives sniffing dogs. In my travels I've seen very few. Anyone here knowledgable in this area. Are the pups that effective? Better than the electronic gagets?
Yes and yes, though electronics are making progress.
The problems with dogs (and I am not really an expert, though I do have some knowledge in this area) are these:
1. They are expensive
2. They take a long time to train
3. They can't be used for an extended period
4. They can only be trained for a few things at most, sometimes only one (you might have a C-4 sniffing dog one day and a glycerine sniffing dog the next)
5. They're labor intensive
6. The handlers are limited
My kids still love me. |
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