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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2001 : 03:09:16
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 Surprised not to have seen this subject talked about. I'd like to know what's the big deal that so many people are against it?
So what, so someone makes another being that looks just like another. BIG deal! Can someone explain why those that are against it, are?
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2001 : 06:14:46 [Permalink]
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I can tell you my reasons not to. First, it has not been perfected yet. It is my understanding that the clones have some serious medical problems, mostly respitory and circulatory.
Second I have a slight problem with they 'why' if a human is cloned. If it is for parents that lost a child, ok I can understand that. If it is to 'just see if we can do it' I wonder what kind of psychological effect that will have on the person later in life. No, you wern't an accident, you were a science project! 
Now if you make clone a person to replicate their abilities, like cloneing Steven Hawking to create another great physicist, then I have a problem. Talk about preassure! Never mind trying to live up to a sibling's success, try living up to your own success! And what if the kid realy wants to be a baseball star instead?
Lastly, the problem of all the Fundy wobbleheads. Some will call it an abomination. I've already seen a discussion on one board as to if it would have a soul or not. How long before some FundiMENTAList decides to do god's work and destroy the abomination?
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 10:50:51 [Permalink]
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There has also been talk of growing a clone just to have a steady supply of organs available for transplanting. If you think abortion makes a lot of people emotional, this one would be sure to work people up.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 10:57:31 [Permalink]
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I think the main problem is that people don't really know anything about cloning. When they here cloning they think of a process by wich you take a hair put it in a test tube and a week later get a fully grown copy of a person complete with memories, scars, haircut...
Cloning is perceived as something new that could significantly alter our society. As always many people are afraid of any kind of change.
There are also religious connotations of this to be considered, but I think that it is mostly some religious people trying to profit from the already existing fear and uncertainty. |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 11:17:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
There has also been talk of growing a clone just to have a steady supply of organs available for transplanting. If you think abortion makes a lot of people emotional, this one would be sure to work people up.
Yes, there has been talk about that. Mostly by people who are against cloning and want elicit just those kind of emotional response.
There are scientist thinking about cloning parts of human bodies for transplantation but this is still mostly science-fiction.
And Marc_a_b objection about the reasons for cloning a human being. Nobody sane would bring a human person into this world just to see if it can be done. They would have to have better reasons.
On the other hand, being horny and to stupid to use precautions is a perfectly legitimate reason to bring a human being into this world. |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 11:17:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
There has also been talk of growing a clone just to have a steady supply of organs available for transplanting.
Personally my body is "out of warranty." I wouldn't mind having a spare part or two sitting around.
When the dead talk -- they talk to him |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 13:01:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Nobody sane would bring a human person into this world just to see if it can be done. They would have to have better reasons.
Well if there is one thing you can count on the human race for it is makeing stupid decisions. One of the groups petitioning congress to keep human cloning legal is a cult with their own bizzare UFO/spiritual reasons.
How about narcacistic dictators who want to create duplicates of themselves so they can rule forever? Or the filthy rich for that matter.
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 13:03:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well if there is one thing you can count on the human race for it is makeing stupid decisions.
When it comes to doing stupid shit or shit for stupid reasons, humans are at the top of that list.
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." -Master Yoda |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 14:06:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
One of the groups petitioning congress to keep human cloning legal is a cult with their own bizzare UFO/spiritual reasons.
The problem with those nuts ain't cloning, but that they are allowed to reproduce at all.
For a sensible project that seeks to employ cloning in a religious quest click her
To bad they weren't serious. I would have supported it. |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 14:57:03 [Permalink]
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Slater, I'm with you on the spare parts deal. This year, I've had to start wearing glasses to read. Cold damp mornings make my joints ache, and 20 years in combat boots has given me a killer case of hammer-toe. I think I'm due for an overhaul.
On the ethics of cloning: that's tough. What are the ethics of a gun? Depends if it's in the hands of law enforcement or a whacko. What about the ethics of DNA mapping? There are insurance companies out there who would love to get a hold of people's DNA profiles. They could then deny coverage to people who stand a good chance of developing genetic based disease. On the other hand, the military is developing DNA profiles for everyone for identification purposes. Many years ago, we have a transport plane crash in Canada. The troops were all hand carrying their medical and dental records. There has never been 100% certainty on the victim's IDs.
So where do we stand with cloning? Like anything else, good/bad ethics depends on how you plan to use the technology.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 16:37:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
So where do we stand with cloning? Like anything else, good/bad ethics depends on how you plan to use the technology.
Well, like any technology this can be misused too, despite regulations. Wouldn't mind a spare knee my self, the one I have is trashed.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2001 : 18:08:49 [Permalink]
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Lars_h wrote:
Nobody sane would bring a human person into this world just to see if it can be done. They would have to have better reasons.
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I remember philosopher Georg Henrik von Wright (not sure about spelling) talking about the technological imperative. This basically means that anything manking can do, mankind will do. Whether or not there's a real purpose, we will do it just because we can.
It's quite amusing that certain religious fundamentalists are trying to stop this, though. They should welcome it with open arms, since a perfect clone essentially has stopped evolution dead in it's track.
Up, up and away!!! |
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bestonnet_00
Skeptic Friend
Australia
358 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 04:17:10 [Permalink]
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Actually bringing people into the world to see if it could be done probably isn't all that different then doing it by accident.
The one thing that really does elevate us from the rest of the animal kingdom is our ability to control evolution, we are quickly reaching the stage where we can control with some ability what we will become. At least on a biological level, and we can selectively breed animals and plants to serve our purposes.
We can also do some very basic cultural evolution as well.
Cloning is just another step in our increase of control over evolution.
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 10:49:39 [Permalink]
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"How about narcacistic dictators who want to create duplicates of themselves so they can rule forever? Or the filthy rich for that matter."
[Marc_a_b]
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Lessee now. If you clone the filthy rich, Wall Street and the AMA will beat a path to your door. But if you clone their wealth, the Secret Service will beat a path to your door (with guns drawn). :)
Guess we should forge ahead with the lab tools and leave the engraving tools aside.
(:raig |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 11:16:19 [Permalink]
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Anybody remember that great film from Universal in 1931 called Frankenstein? Before the credits and the title even come up you see this old, well dressed, guy step out from behind a curtain. He is there to warn you about the potentiality of fright but he also announces that the movie's theme is a cautionary tale of "a man of science who sought to create a man after his own image without reckoning upon God."
Later in that same series, when Wolfmen and Vampires had joined the act Maria Ouspenskaya admonishes the son of Frankenstein that "Dare are tings that man vas not meant to know!"
This has been a staple of scary movies ever since. Why I'm ready to start queuing up this summer for the third movie about the mad scientist who took DNA from amber encased mosquitoes and produced "uncontrollable monsters" that ate San Diego and Sam Neill.
Don't let old Maria frighten you about cloning.
We can't do it perfectly--- we'll learn.
Clones won't have happy childhoods-- who do you know (that is the least bit interesting) that did?
Evil dictators will make copies of themselves so that they can rule forever--- they already do. Even as we speak a horrible floppy-eared monster is lurking around the foggy streets of London. He is known as (three notes of dramatic music here) Prince Charles.
Growing parts is only in science fiction-- for the moment. But remember the human ear that was grown on the back of a white mouse a few years ago.
I say damn the Ouspenskaya, full speed ahead with cloning.
But of course I can't forget that wonderful character actress Una O'Connor who in The Bride of Frankenstein said, and I quote.
"Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
When the dead talk -- they talk to him |
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