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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2002 : 02:24:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
How does a scientist (or a skeptic) go about evaluating an emotional issue with so much uncertainty involved?
Just think of all the trouble courts have with it and how some judges have treated rape cases. I can remember a few where it was basically decided that the woman dressed so provocatively that the fault was partially hers etc. I doubt scientists would fare much better. I suppose asking the rapists might be a good place to start. Study the histories of the rapists, the details of the crime itself and try to see if any pattern reveals itself.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2002 : 02:36:02 [Permalink]
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Recognize ones own bias. Physician, heal thyself!
I agree.
It would require a strong stomach as well.
- Cthulhu Saves! - |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2002 : 10:59:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
How is date rape different than rape?
I believe one difference that might have relevance to the topic in general is that I would guess that many date rapists honestly don't believe they are raping their date.
And I would also bet that in many instances, the woman doesn't realize (or come to the conclusion) that it was rape until further thought, or input from friends.
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Sum Ergo Cogito
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 03/31/2002 11:00:34 |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2002 : 16:47:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Also, if there was little sexual satisfaction invovled, then one would not expect rapists to reach climax.
I believe the sexual satisfaction is driven by the dominance factor. I very seriously doubt a rapist would get the same level of satisfaction from consential sex.
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2002 : 22:49:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Also, if there was little sexual satisfaction invovled, then one would not expect rapists to reach climax.
I believe the sexual satisfaction is driven by the dominance factor. I very seriously doubt a rapist would get the same level of satisfaction from consential sex.
Okay, but is the rapist satisfying his urge to have sex or to dominate?
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field.
-Niels Bohr
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2002 : 23:37:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
quote:
Also, if there was little sexual satisfaction invovled, then one would not expect rapists to reach climax.
I believe the sexual satisfaction is driven by the dominance factor. I very seriously doubt a rapist would get the same level of satisfaction from consential sex.
Okay, but is the rapist satisfying his urge to have sex or to dominate?
I think the rapist is trying to satisfy his urge to dominate. I'm sure there are probably studies out there that speak to sexual arousal of convicted rapists when shown dominating visuals that are non sexual in nature. They would probably get turned on by watching a man beat a woman.
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2002 : 23:54:26 [Permalink]
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I got curious and started browsing. There is a lot of information out there profiling rapists.
Here are some motivations that are typically used by FBI in profiling rapists. http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/401/401lect18.htm
Power-Reassurance (Compensatory) non-aggressive behavior that normalizes an attack for an offender, restoring an offender's doubts about their desirability;
Power-Assertive (Exploitative) aggressive but non-lethal behavior that shows no outward doubt of masculinity, restoring an offender's inner doubts and fears;
Anger-Retaliatory (Displaced) behavior, in which high levels physical and sexual aggression service feelings of cumulative rage;
Anger-Excitation (Sadistic) behavior, where aggression is used to cause pain and suffering to service the offender's sexual gratification.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 01:05:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
How is date rape different than rape?
I believe one difference that might have relevance to the topic in general is that I would guess that many date rapists honestly don't believe they are raping their date.
And I would also bet that in many instances, the woman doesn't realize (or come to the conclusion) that it was rape until further thought, or input from friends.
Ah gee, the poor 'victim', I feel so sorry for her.
If she's that much of a ding bat that she has to think about it or be told she was assaulted, how bad could it have been?
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried. He couldn't do it either.
If you succeed, you sell, if you 'fail' you learn |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 04:10:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
If she's that much of a ding bat that she has to think about it or be told she was assaulted, how bad could it have been?
[Insert generic blonde joke here]
- Cthulhu Saves! - |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 06:50:41 [Permalink]
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Anybody ever watch "The Real World" on MTV? (Heh, no apologies from me!)
In the second season, towards the beginning, there was an incident that kinda ties in with the theme here. Four roomates, 2 guys and 2 girls, were goofing around. One of the girls was only in her bra and panties, and was under a blanket in the bed.
They were all laughing and wrestling around, and one of the guys started trying to grab the blanket off the girl. She laughed and fought back, like tug-o'-war. She got up out of bed, with the blanket still on, laughing and wrestling. The other roomates looked on, also laughing.
The tug-o'-war lasted for a bit, until they got tired and gave up. The girl may have shown some discomfort during, but as she was laughing and playing along, so the guy involved could surely be excused for not seeing it.
Where it gets interesting is that after all this, either later that night or the next day, the other girl roomate that was there started telling the girl involved that what the male roomate did wasn't right, and even might have been sexual assault!
Guess what happened? She decided, after the fact, that what he did violated her in some way, and he got kicked off the show.
I can imagine many date rape scenarios playing out much the same way. Maybe the girl didn't really want to have sex, but she didn't really give any definite signs either way, and went ahead with it. Then after either deciding on her own, or with the help of friends, charges the guy with rape. She may not even definitely believe it, but with pressure from friends ("You can't let him get away with it! That pig!"), she goes ahead and presses charges.
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 08:35:03 [Permalink]
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That's ridiculous! Rape is not the absence of consent - it is the use of force in the absence of consent, or to obtain consent.
The exception being molestation and statutory rape, a different topic.
I really don't want to think of how one can "not give any clear signs either way", but, in the absence of force...
- Cthulhu Saves! - |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2002 : 11:39:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Rape is not the absence of consent - it is the use of force in the absence of consent, or to obtain consent.
Define force. The legal definition uses the word duress included in the list of what is used to aquire sex that equates to rape.
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A couple of interesting statistics from a study by psychologist Mary Koss:
The demographic profile of the 3,187 female and 2,972 male students in the study was similar to the makeup of the overall enrollment in higher education within the United States.
84 percent of those men who committed rape said that what they did was definitely not rape.
Only 27 percent of those women whose sexual assault met the legal definition of rape thought of themselves as rape victims.
Only five percent of the rape victims reported the crime to the police.
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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Badger
Skeptic Friend
Canada
257 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2002 : 09:26:40 [Permalink]
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As a side note, men forcibly rape menas a power thing.
And how does swimming across a lake/river with a lit candle in your butt as part of a frat initiation fit in?
Men rape for power
It seems to me that I remember every fuckin thing I know. (Tragically Hip) |
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Hook
Skeptic Friend
USA
79 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2002 : 14:10:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
That's ridiculous! Rape is not the absence of consent - it is the use of force in the absence of consent, or to obtain consent.
I have to say, I disagree. Stupidity and weak wills should not result in a sentence of unwanted sex. Rape is very much the absence of consent, and should be. There will always be the cases where this notion is carried too far or used for revenge after the fact, but I don't actually think such incidents account for the majority of cases.
Smarm and fast talking instead of physical force doesn't make it any the less rape.
Just my $0.02 cents.
"I don't care whether my neighbor believes in zero gods or 20 gods, I care whether my neighbor believes in democracy."
--Bill Moyers |
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2002 : 16:26:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Smarm and fast talking instead of physical force doesn't make it any the less rape.
Whaa? Sweet-talking a person into bed is rape? On what logic do you base that?
That goes against the legal definition, which is "Sex obtained through the use of force or the fear of force with the implied lack of consent" and the definition in my psych text "An act of violence where sexual relations are forced upon another"
To define rape that way would easily result in ruining a person's life.
Simply because a partner just couldn't make up his/her mind and consented when s/he didn't really want to hardly constitutes rape.
Edited for emotionalism.
- Cthulhu Saves! -
Edited by - Xev on 04/03/2002 16:31:03 |
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Topic Locked
