|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2008 : 06:58:55
|
What I do find worrying is that whoever the idiot is that's running McCain's website actually lets garbage like this stay on it: Monday, June 09, 2008
McCain's Web site talks about the anti-Christ being 'a Jew,' Hillary being a 'bitch,' Obama being a 'Muslim fag,' and America bringing 9/11 on itself
John Aravosis (DC) · 6/09/2008 08:53:00 AM ET
Some folks on the right thought they'd pull an "I gotcha" on Obama by trying to find kooky things visitors have written on Obama's blog. So, I thought I'd take a look at John McCain's campaign Web site and do a search for words like "fag," "bitch," and "Jew," for starters. What I found wasn't pretty. It's interesting to note that each comment has a "flag as offensive" button next to it, so that readers can inform the moderator that the comments are offensive. Either McCain's readers don't find any of this offensive, or McCain's staff was informed and didn't care. |
Were I in Johnny McCain's orthopedic penny-loafers, that fool's pelt would be nailed to the side of the tool shed, salted down to dry, and it's previous owner replaced with someone who knows what the hell he's doing, probably Kil. If Kil were stupid enough to want the job, that is. Or could at least be talked into it without resorting to the pistol. I mean, shit, does McCain want to win what promises to be a very tough election against what is proving out to be a very tough man, or what?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2008 : 10:19:41 [Permalink]
|
Filthy.....
| ....and it's previous owner replaced with someone who knows what the hell he's doing, probably Kil. |
Well, Filth for some time I have had concern about Kil's membership in the Puritan Church of the Pyrrhonic, but never once have I even suspected that he could be a closet conservative. My God! (Or yours, if you like.) This is shattering news!
For almost a year I have been posting liberal blasphemy on SFN, assuming I had a frendly environment, and now you reveal that The Boss could actually be on McCain's short list of sychophants! What's next? Dave goes on the campaign circuit converting cretins to conservative creationism? My world is crumbling around me! |
 |
|
|
Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2008 : 21:29:15 [Permalink]
|
Someone once told me the level of discourse on this site was better than other places, but all I see are regurgitations of talking points floating around the various blogs that have been discussed better elsewhere.
Do you have any thoughts of your own to add? Do you think there is a difference between someone who sets up their own blog and someone who just makes a comment? How much responsibility should an owner take for unmoderated opinions placed on his server? Do you think any of these might be faked to make a candidate look bad?
My opinion?
I think one guy who claims the anti-Christ will be an apostate Jew doesn't mean anything. I think it falls short of being anti-Semitism because he's not saying Jews are bad, only that one specific Jew will be very bad according to a particular prophesy he believes in. I think it's certainly kooky, but then any discussion of biblical prophesy, the anti-Christ or End of Times is inherently kooky.
As a regular reader of Little Green Footballs I tend to think Charles Johnson is going off the deep end with his constant harping on who said what over on Obama's site or the Daily Kos. While I think there is some relevance to take a look at what sort of person supports what candidate or ideology, but only minor importance, nowhere near the attention he's giving it.
I also think a lot of this stuff, particularly the stuff being used to smear Obama is likely to be faked. It's exactly the kind of mean-spirited trickery that happens in political races, so I really don't think any importance should be attached to it. |
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 00:42:29 [Permalink]
|
Mycroft.....
| Someone once told me the level of discourse on this site was better than other places, but all I see are regurgitations of talking points floating around the various blogs that have been discussed better elsewhere. |
Well, Mycroft what are you looking for? Innovation? Diversity of topic? Mind-bending new ideas, concepts never before conceived? Your complaint is at once very direct and very ambiguous. What topics would Mycroft's perfect forum site discuss? How would the opinion on those topics be presented in order to warm Mycroft's heart?| 1. Do you have any thoughts of your own to add? |
I will assume this is a general address, not specific to just Filthy and me. Yes, I try - pretty hard sometimes -to present opinions of my own both as commentary on other's topics and extrapolation of topics I introduce! I don't see SFN as a playing field to sit in the bleachers and watch!
| 2. Do you think there is a difference between someone who sets up their own blog and someone who just makes a comment? |
Yes. Discourse is a distinctively different discipline than essay or monologue!
| 3. How much responsibility should an owner take for unmoderated opinions placed on his server?? |
As little as is possible to prevent uncontrolled trolling, intervention of government Patriot Actors (perceived sedition), and runaway nonsense sessions. Runaway! Otherwise, an owner's intervention is an expression of personal bias or ego!
4. Do you think any of these might be faked to make a candidate look bad?
|
this is obviously a specific reference to Filthy's post. I think it is a certainty that many of the more extreme comments are placed with intent to elicit a visceral response! This is politics! Do you have a problem with that?
| 5. I think one guy who claims the anti-Christ will be an apostate Jew doesn't mean anything. I think it falls short of being anti-Semitism because he's not saying Jews are bad, only that one specific Jew will be very bad according to a particular prophesy he believes in. I think it's certainly kooky, but then any discussion of biblical prophesy, the anti-Christ or End of Times is inherently kooky. |
To me, the whole concept of an "anti-Christ" is so weird, that it doesn't merit serious comment. Some of the religious members here will undoubtedly have a different opinion on this.
| 6. As a regular reader of Little Green Footballs I tend to think Charles Johnson is going off the deep end with his constant harping on who said what over on Obama's site or the Daily Kos. While I think there is some relevance to take a look at what sort of person supports what candidate or ideology, but only minor importance, nowhere near the attention he's giving it |
Do you classify yourself as a lizardoid, or just a lurker? Personally, I have some major issues with Johnson!
| 7. I also think a lot of this stuff, particularly the stuff being used to smear Obama is likely to be faked. It's exactly the kind of mean-spirited trickery that happens in political races, so I really don't think any importance should be attached to it. |
Well, the importance is that it is prototypical Rovian politics, and, being a card-carrying Obama supporter, I feel it has to be noted as large numbers of the Great Unwashed bite on shit like this and swallow it whole! Of course it is faked, but it works! Remember the Swift Boats? |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 06/10/2008 01:20:55 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 04:46:09 [Permalink]
|
I'm not going to try and address your entire post, Mycroft --buck's already done that -- but I will touch upon this part: 4. Do you think any of these might be faked to make a candidate look bad?
|
Of course some of them are faked! It's a sad comment on American society that they all are not. Then we could get a good laugh.
However, my point was that such crap remains on the site(s) when it should have been consigned to cyber-hell as soon as discovered, and I think you'll agree with me on that. So why was it left up? Was it mean-spiritedness? Incompetence? What?
This election promises to be like none other, largly due to people being highly pissed off and feeling shat upon. I have a feeling that, tired of the last 12 year's bullshit, this sort of thing just might not work all that well any more. We'll see; pretty soon, there's going to be a lot of it going through the fan.
I expect McCain to be accused of senility, insanity, and being joined at the hip to Bush. I expect to hear all about Obama's Muslimoid affliction in the same breath as his association with that motormouth preacher, whassisface, Wright. I expect to see both websites dripping with vitriol, and hope that the moderators stay on top of it so that reasonable discussions of the candidates can be had. How is that too much to ask?
I'm tired, Mycroft. My temper grows short and my patience wears thin. The Hillary/Barrak wars so recently disengaged from have not improved matters much. I have yet to come out swinging, but probably will soon enough.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 23:47:01 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by bngbuck
Mycroft.....
Well, Mycroft what are you looking for? Innovation? Diversity of topic? Mind-bending new ideas, concepts never before conceived? |
Certainly all those would be nice, but I'm not making any demands. There are more than enough places on the internet for discourse, one more or less makes little difference.
| Yes. Discourse is a distinctively different discipline than essay or monologue! |
That's not exactly what I was getting at.
The criticisms of Obama seem to revolve around wacky or radical peoples starting their own blogs which were presumably approved by the Obama people versus the criticisms of the McCain blogs were just individual comments within larger discussions.
| As little as is possible to prevent uncontrolled trolling, intervention of government Patriot Actors (perceived sedition), and runaway nonsense sessions. Runaway! Otherwise, an owner's intervention is an expression of personal bias or ego! |
The point is if it's fair to criticize Obama because some wacky group starts up a blog on his site? How does it reflect on McCain if someone in a discussion on his blog talks about biblical prophecy seriously?
Or in another context, often Little Green Footballs is unfairly criticized for comments made in its comments section as though it were a reflection of the views of it's owner. At the same time, LGF will also cherry-pick nutty comments & blogs from Daily Kos in a similar way. My opinion is both are unfair.
| this is obviously a specific reference to Filthy's post. I think it is a certainty that many of the more extreme comments are placed with intent to elicit a visceral response! This is politics! Do you have a problem with that? |
I think it's likely that many, if not all, of those extremists blogs found on Obama's site are faked.
| To me, the whole concept of an "anti-Christ" is so weird, that it doesn't merit serious comment. Some of the religious members here will undoubtedly have a different opinion on this. |
Then we agree. :)
| Do you classify yourself as a lizardoid, or just a lurker? Personally, I have some major issues with Johnson! |
I like the ironic adoption of “lizardoid” so sure, I'll own that. At the same time, I have my own disagreements with Johnson.
In general I agree with Johnson's pro-Israel politics and concern about radical Islam. At the same time, I think his voice has become more shrill over the last several months, and I think he could benefit from a long nap followed by a vacation.
Well, the importance is that it is prototypical Rovian politics, and, being a card-carrying Obama supporter, I feel it has to be noted as large numbers of the Great Unwashed bite on shit like this and swallow it whole! Of course it is faked, but it works! Remember the Swift Boats?
|
Do you think Rove is behind this? Or does the “Rovian” moniker apply to anything dirty in politics these days? :)
|
|
|
|
Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 07:30:28 [Permalink]
|
Also, objectively, Hillary is something of a bitch at times.
|
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 07:56:57 [Permalink]
|
I feel that the candidate and/or his minions are directly responsible for anything that appears on their official websites, just as I am responsible for anything I write and post in here. While the difference is one of degree, I take the responsibility seriously as my writing directly reflects upon me.
Were I the webmaster for either camp, there'd be a lot of pissed-off bloggers & posters that got maliciously dumped for lying & idiocy.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:28:28 [Permalink]
|
Mycroft.....
Originally posted by bngbuck
Well, Mycroft what are you looking for? Innovation? Diversity of topic? Mind-bending new ideas, concepts never before conceived?
| Certainly all those would be nice, but I'm not making any demands. There are more than enough places on the internet for discourse, one more or less makes little difference. |
|
All true, Mycroft, but I don't get your drift. Do you just mean to point out the irrelevance of SFN?
Personally, I don't have the time to visit in depth a great many of the political blogs, I follow Huffpost and DailyKos petty well, but I don't intensively study the enemy's propaganda. As far as SFN is concerned, I gather you feel our discourse is somewhat dispirited or impotent?The point is if it's fair to criticize Obama because some wacky group starts up a blog on his site? How does it reflect on McCain if someone in a discussion on his blog talks about biblical prophecy seriously?
Or in another context, often Little Green Footballs is unfairly criticized for comments made in its comments section as though it were a reflection of the views of it's owner. At the same time, LGF will also cherry-pick nutty comments & blogs from Daily Kos in a similar way. My opinion is both are unfair. |
First, all is fair in love, war, and politics! Fair doesn't even apply. Before this campaign is over, the mud-slinging will turn into feces tossing, which will become rock, Molotov cocktail, and eventually bomb-throwing. If one side or the other can find a political nuke, they'll win!
As to SFN, Kil, although possibly a closet Calvinist, is most assuredly a liberal! That said, SFN is a multi-faceted site and Politics is only one of it's aspects. In that sense, when you ask....
| How much responsibility should an owner take for unmoderated opinions placed on his server? |
....the answer has to be none! Nor should he care unless it becomes obvious that a polblogger is trying to use the site for political spam!| I think it's likely that many, if not all, of those extremists blogs found on Obama's site are faked. |
Certainly, but, again, that's politics and we ain't seen nuthin' yet!!| In general I agree with Johnson's pro-Israel politics and concern about radical Islam. At the same time, I think his voice has become more shrill over the last several months, and I think he could benefit from a long nap followed by a vacation. |
Johnson has said.....| I'm not pretending I'm giving equal time to both sides. But I do think what I'm advocating, and what I believe in, is the right side |
...and I would modify that to read the the far right side!| Do you think Rove is behind this? Or does the “Rovian” moniker apply to anything dirty in politics these days? :) |
I don't think, I'm pretty damn sure! As I have stated here before, I contribute heavily to the DNC. One of the perks that a regular substantial supporter gets is communication access to higher |
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 10:54:27 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Mycroft
I think one guy who claims the anti-Christ will be an apostate Jew doesn't mean anything...
|
Hitler may beg to differ on this minor point.* The man in question is not a shack-bound uni-fundy.
As for the rest of your attack, it is baseless. Naturally many sites will be discussing the same topics as we have common interests and as the topic is often scientific in content, repetition isnt nessisarily a negative. Many of the 'antagonist' posters here are unfamiliar with our common arguements and we often have to go over the same points with multiple people or worse the same person. The implication that we just regurgitate others views is nonsense, they are stealing from us!
*Apologies for the far to easy obligitory Nazi arguement. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
|
|
|
Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2008 : 22:51:51 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by bngbuck
First, all is fair in love, war, and politics! Fair doesn't even apply. Before this campaign is over, the mud-slinging will turn into feces tossing, which will become rock, Molotov cocktail, and eventually bomb-throwing. If one side or the other can find a political nuke, they'll win!
As to SFN, Kil, although possibly a closet Calvinist, is most assuredly a liberal! That said, SFN is a multi-faceted site and Politics is only one of it's aspects. In that sense, when you ask....
....the answer has to be none! Nor should he care unless it becomes obvious that a polblogger is trying to use the site for political spam!
|
So neither McCain nor Obama should be held responsible for what other put on their blogs. Doesn't that make this thread irrelevant?
Originally posted by bngbuck
I don't think, I'm pretty damn sure! As I have stated here before, I contribute heavily to the DNC. One of the perks that a regular substantial supporter gets is communication access to higher levels of the Party structure. I don't get to talk to Obama or anything like that, but the mucky-mucks I can talk to state that McCain's campaign is unquestionably directed by Rove, sub rosa, and we can expect every dirty trick in the book before it's over! |
If true, wouldn't that be a good thing to get press attention on?
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
I should find this hard to believe, but don't.
