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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2008 : 05:43:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Curiouser'n curioser: an interesting development:
ORANGE COUNTY, FL -- A Catholic student group is facing hazing charges after a worshiper allegedly used force while trying to rescue a communion wafer from a student leader smuggling it out of Mass.
Catholics consider the consecrated wafer, the Eucharist, among the most sacred objects in the world and believe it becomes the 'Body of Christ' through transubstantiation.
Student Government Senator Webster Cook filed the hazing charges with University of Central Florida administrators shortly after he admitted violating church rules by bringing the Eucharist home from Mass on June 29, then holding it hostage for one week in a plastic bag before returning it.
Cook said his hazing complaint cited a UCF anti-hazing policy banning the forced consumption of any food in which the initiation or admission into or affiliation with a University of Central Florida organization may be directly or indirectly conditioned. |
Nice to see the boy is fighting the insanity back. And who knows, we might have a budding atheist coming into our midst.
It is true that he violated church rules, but, as the OP states, the reaction was badly out of proportion to the violation. These come off as people who would happily go back to stoning for such things.
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That article had some funny bits:
| Cook, who said he decided to return the Eucharist after receiving threats against his life and afterlife from angry Catholics, maintains he did nothing wrong and says he still deserves an apology for being "attacked" during Mass. Cook also denied he apologized for his actions, as UCF officials claimed he did in a statement. |
Threats against his afterlife, lol. That's hilarious. And what's this all about being attacked in Mass? I've yet to see any good description of what actually happened in that mass. And is Cook actually a Catholic or was he at the mass strictly to stir up trouble?
Also, I thinkt he hazing charge is pretty weak. Nobody is ever forced to take communion in a Catholic mass. But you are expected to eat it if do take it. The choice is either eat it or don't take it and I'm certain he had the option to return it to the priest rather than eat it. This is so not hazing... 
I also wonder what happened to the wafer he returned? Did someone eat it? The priest maybe? I wouldn't eat something a hostile stranger held hostage for a week and returned only after death threats...  |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 05:50:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
And still, PZ says in an interview that he must "do something that shows this cracker has no power." Some would suggest that such a statement indicates that he is in in thrall to the cracker already.
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The cracker may not have supernatural power, but it sure as hell is the focus of a great deal of social power. That is already plenty evident. Improper use of the cracker = trouble. |
-Chaloobi
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 05:59:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
I've yet to see any good description of what actually happened in that mass. |
Nobody has publicly disputed Cook's version of events, in which someone tried to pry the wafer out of his hand. It's simple assault. Calling it "being attacked" is a bit much on his part. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 06:46:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
I had a discussion with Michelle about the cracker incident last night. She didn't know about it because she has been out of town for the last week.
Her position is that the guy who stole the cracker, shouldn't have. But yes, death threats and assault are way over the top as a response to his actions. She is disappointed in Myers for taking it as far as he did. She described his protest as sophomoric. A frat prank not worthy of him.
She makes the point that as rational as we may be, we will not get through to the people who view the cracker as the Catholics do. For them, it's the host. It's the body of Christ and that's that. A rational argument vs. an irrationally held belief is all well and good, but in cases like the sacraments, the rational argument amounts to preaching to the choir. And to the extent that Myers took it, baiting the irrational to be even more irrational than usual proved nothing more than what we already knew. That is, there are nutballs out there who don't even understand their own scripture which is a point that Dave has argued well.
I'm inclined to agree with her, even though we argued a bit over Myers reaction and protest.
Naturally, we both agree that the death threats and such should be dealt with. But as Randi told me, it's the quiet ones you have to worry about…
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Pretty much sums up what I think as well. We can argue all we want over what would be a good analogy for the cracker (if there is one), but doing something that will piss people off on their own turf (where they are not trying to force their beliefs on anyone else) is, if nothing else, not very nice.
The fact that some catholics have turned out to be hypocritical dickheads doesn't really change that.
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2008 : 06:47:53 [Permalink]
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I am so sorry, dear friends and companions in solar orbit, but I cannot resist any longer. What follows was posted at Pharyngula by Owlmirror, and that handle oughta tell you something right there.
"Being aware of All Internet Traditions™, I think we all know that no Internet Phenomenon is complete until it has been properly LOLCATIFIED.
Thus, we present for ur lolz:
WAFERGATE
OR
CEILING CATLOLIC IS WATCHING YOU MASTICATE
Act I, Scene I
University of Central Florida, Catholic Chapel
PRIEST: JEBUS HAS A FLAVR!
PARISHIONER 1: I CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER?
PRIEST: YES, YOU CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER.
PARISHIONER 1: NOM NOM NOM
PARISHIONER 2: I CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER?
PRIEST: YES, YOU CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER.
PARISHIONER 2: NOM NOM NOM
PARISHIONER 3: I CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER?
PRIEST: YES, YOU CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER.
PARISHIONER 3: NOM NOM NOM
WEBSTER COOK: I CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER?
PRIEST: YES, YOU CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER.
WEBSTER COOK: YAY, JEBUS CRACKER SOOVENEER!
PRIEST: WAIT, WHUT?
WEBSTER COOK: KTHXBYE
PARISHIONERS: NO! YOU NO CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER! NOT YOURS!
WEBSTER COOK: FEETS DON'T FAIL ME NOW
PARISHIONERS: OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!
PARISHIONERS: NOOOOOOO! HE BE STEALIN OUR JEBUS CRACKER!!!
Act II, Scene I
Diocese of Orlando
GONZALEZ: HALP! JEBUS CRACKER IS KIDNAPPED!
SUSAN FANI: STEALIN JEBUS CRACKER IS HAET CRIEM!
Act II, Scene II
Catholic League
DONAHUE: STEALIN JEBUS CRACKER IS TERRIBLE HAET CRIEM!
DONAHUE: EXPUL-SION-ATE! EXPUL-SION-ATE! EXPUL-SION-ATE!
Act III, Scene I
University of Central Florida
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE SAD
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE WANT JEBUS CRACKER
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE MAD
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE WANT JEBUS CRACKER
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE FIND YOU
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE RESCUE JEBUS CRACKER
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE BRAEK IN
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE RESCUE JEBUS CRACKER
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE KEEELL YOU
EMAIL TO WEBSTER COOK: WE RESCUE JEBUS CRACKER
WEBSTER COOK: DO! NOT!! WANT!!!
Act III, Scene II
University of Central Florida
WEBSTER COOK: DO NOT WANT JEBUS CRACKER. TAEK IT.
PARISHIONERS: YAY! WE CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKER!
PARISHIONERS: WE GET COPS TO GAURD JEBUS CRACKERS NOW.
WEBSTER COOK: WTF?
Act IV, Scene I
Pharyngula Headquarters
PZ MYERS: WTFBBQ!!!
PZ MYERS: CATLOLICS GO APESHIT OVER JEBUS CRACKER!
PZ MYERS: IT'S A GODDAMN FRACKIN' CRACKER!
PZ MYERS: TEH STUPID, IT BURNZ!
PZ MYERS: WANT CAN HAS JEBUS CRACKERS!
PZ MYERS: DE-SE-CRATE! DE-SE-CRATE! DE-SE-CRATE!
PHARYNGULA: LOL
PHARYNGULA: SAD CATHOLICS ARE SAD
PHARYNGULA: CONCERN TROLLS ARE CONCERNED
PHARYNGULA: ANGER TROLLS ARE ANGRY
PHARYNGULA: HATE TROLLS ARE HATIN
PHARYNGULA: SOCKPUPPETS ARE SAD+CONCERNED+ANGRY+HATIN
PHARYNGULA: WTF! SOMEONE IS WRONG ON TEH INTERNETS!
PHARYNGULA: THEY SEE US SCOFFIN, THEY HATIN
PHARYNGULA: (Repeat above 1000 tiems)
SCIENCE BLOGS PHARYNGULA DATABASE: AAAAOOOOOGAAAAH! OVERLOAD!
SCIENCE BLOGS PHARYNGULA DATABASE: ERROR 500 SERVER ERROR!
PZ MYERS: WTF! NEW THREAD.
Act IV, Scene II
Catholic League
DONAHUE: DESECRATIN JEBUS CRACKER IS WORSE THAN HAYT CRIEM!
DONAHUE: EXPUL-SION-ATE! EXPUL-SION-ATE! EXPUL-SION-ATE!
Act IV, Scene III
Pharyngula Headquarters
PZ MYERS: WILLAIM DONAHUE IS DEMENTED
PZ MYERS: PHARYNGULA! HALP!
PHARYNGULA: PZ MYERS IS TEH AWE SUM!
PHARYNGULA: SAD CATHOLICS ARE SAD
PHARYNGULA: CONCERN TROLLS ARE CONCERNED
PHARYNGULA: ANGER TROLLS ARE ANGRY
PHARYNGULA: HATE TROLLS ARE HATIN
PHARYNGULA: SOCKPUPPETS ARE SAD+CONCERNED+ANGRY+HATIN
PHARYNGULA: WTF! SOMEONE IS WRONG ON TEH INTERNETS!
PHARYNGULA: THEY SEE US SCOFFIN, THEY HATIN
PHARYNGULA: (Repeat above 1000 tiems)
SCIENCE BLOGS PHARYNGULA DATABASE: AAAAOOOOOGAAAAH! OVERLOAD!
SCIENCE BLOGS PHARYNGULA DATABASE: ERROR 500 SERVER ERROR!
PZ MYERS: WTF! NEW THREAD.
Act IV, Scene IV
Pharyngula Headquarters
PHARYNGULA: SECOND THIRD FOURTH FIFTH VERSE, SAME AS TEH FIRST
PZ MYERS: HEY! SOCKPUPPETS! GET OFF OF MY LAWN!
PHARYNGULA: (REPEAT SUM MOAR)
TEH END.......?"
Owlmirror where ever you are, We thank you! MAY YOUR JEBUS CRACKER HAS PEANUTBUTTER ON IT!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 12:59:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Boron10
Also, if you are going to quote scripture at a Catholic, use the New American Translation. I am too lazy to see if you did, but I figure I'll put the advice down here anyway.
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I pasted the quotes from http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com and I think it was King James' version.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 13:33:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Owlmirror where ever you are, We thank you! MAY YOUR JEBUS CRACKER HAS PEANUTBUTTER ON IT!
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AY-MEN!
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2008 : 21:56:51 [Permalink]
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Actually, that cectic cartoon was more frightening than funny to me, though I guess that was the point.
It seems that there's another story of some christians running amock after getting offended...
Hyderabad(IANS) Christian groups Sunday attacked the offices of Telugu daily #8216;Sakshi#8217;, owned by Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister Y. S. Rajasekhara Reddy#8217;s family, to protest the publication of a blasphemous picture of Jesus Christ. The daily#8217;s Sunday edition carried a picture showing Jesus with a beer mug in one hand and a cigarette in the other. The chief minister#8217;s family, which practices Christianity, has tendered an apology.
The chief minister#8217;s son and newspaper owner Y.S. Jaganmohan Reddy and the chief minister#8217;s wife tendered an apology to the Christian community for the faux pas.
Protesting the publication of the picture, Christian groups attacked the newspaper offices in Prakasam, Srikakulam, Vijayawada, Nizamabad and other towns. Raising slogans against the newspaper, they barged into the offices and ransacked the furniture. |
This is from India, it seems. It doesn't happen in just the xian-dominated US it appears.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 08:01:23 [Permalink]
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I never walk away from a work or school computer/terminal if I'm logged in. It takes all of a half a second to log out of most. I never write down passwords, though I understand why some people do. I can easily memorize short sequences (don't laugh, I memorize my bank accnt numbers and credit card numbers... heh), it takes a little practice, but it isn't difficult. Just go learn a memory system.
I'm fairly unsympathetic to Ms Kroll's case. Her statements indicate that she knows who was using her account.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 08:17:45 [Permalink]
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I was never comfortable with this. The message simply didn't have the feel of something a woman would send; not to say that one would not communicate a threat. Just not quite like that threat. Ms. Kroll's getting a bum rap and I hope, what with her husband's confession, she's soon reenstated at her job.
As for desecrating the Quran, <shrug> I don't see any difference, and both are wastes of time better spent otherwise. You'd have to go too far out of your way to find either the Christly Cracker or the Taliban Tome. There are easier ways to piss off the faithfully & aggressivly deluded.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 08:35:10 [Permalink]
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| Charles confession could have easily been written in a single paragraph or two. But I guess he just couldn't resist stepping upon the soapbox and exposing himself again. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 09:15:21 [Permalink]
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I have just sent 1-800-FLOWERS the following e-mail:
Dear sirs,
Not a question but a request that I hope you will pass on to the folks concerned, as I don't know how to reach them.
I would wish to see Melonie Kroll re-enstated in her employment. She has recieved a bad rap for her husband's actions and really deserves no more than being severly hollered at for letting the lout anywhere near her computer.
Death threats are not acceptable, whatever the provacation, however, in this case, Ms. Kroll did not send the communication, nor, if I have the story straigfht, did she even know of it.
I am an atheist and a regular at Pharngula, and I, like many others there regret her firing.
Hoping this brief missive influences your thoughts and brings you the compassionate and indeed the wisest decision.
Sincerely,
Philip Gillette.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 10:30:42 [Permalink]
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filthy, I appreciate your sentiments but Melonie Kroll has no chance of getting her job back. 1-800-FLOWERS had to distance themselves from this death threat as quickly as possible for legal reasons or they could potentially be held criminally liable. Firing her was their only option. And for most companies, the fact that she allowed someone else access to her email account is alone a firing offense, death threats or not. So no, she's not getting her old job back, but we can hope she lands on her feet someplace else. Who knows? Perhaps she'll find a better job than the one she lost. God does work in mysterious ways...
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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A Christian (Catholic) sense of proportion...
