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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 10/02/2008 : 11:40:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Interesting catch Bill. Here is an article on it:
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
I doubt that the handover would have prevented the overall meltdown that took place, especially since the Bush administration was hot to deregulate, and that Fanny and Freddy were for being moved to executive branch regulations. But I dunno…
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The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt -- is broken. A report by outside investigators in July concluded that Freddie Mac manipulated its accounting to mislead investors, and critics have said Fannie Mae does not adequately hedge against rising interest rates.
I guess my over ridding question is how does Barney Frank, the current HFSC Chairman, not only get a free pass here but he is being trumpeted for his heroics as a key figure for the massive bailout bill?
I mean in July of 2003 you have the current administration and outside investigators acknowledging that Fannie and Freddie were broken. In response Barney Frank, the current HFSC Chairman, counters with this:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and this:
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
And basically it was suggested that anyone who recommend that Freddie and Fannie be supervised was just simply against poor people having houses.
And Frank carried his delusion, or his illusion, that Fannie and Freddie were solid, all the way through the 08 Democratic convention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank
So five years after getting the warning that Freddie and Fannie were on a doomsday course and then dismissing that warning Frank runs around trumpeting his key role in drafting the massive bailout of the mess that he helped create?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
So is Frank, the current HFSC Chairman, held accountable for this debacle occurring on his watch when he was warned of the coming demise as much as 5 years ago?
Not from what I can tell. Heck, Dave W. thinks that "Barney Frank is awesome" ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 12:02:12 [Permalink]
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Billy, your delusion is spreading.
As the republicans were in the majority in 2003, Barney could not have been the chairman of any committee. As the republicans were in the majority, they had more members on the committee than dems.
So republicans are to blame, not dems, not Barney.
Medical attention, seek it now Billy.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 12:20:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I guess my over ridding question is how does Barney Frank, the current HFSC Chairman, not only get a free pass here but he is being trumpeted for his heroics as a key figure for the massive bailout bill? |
He's not. I only trumpeted his funny rejoinder to Republican whining about Pelosi on Monday. The more I hear about it, the more I think the bill itself is a dog. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 12:35:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
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As the republicans were in the majority in 2003, Barney could not have been the chairman of any committee. As the republicans were in the majority, they had more members on the committee than dems.
So republicans are to blame, not dems, not Barney. |
So let me get this straight. In July of 2003 the Bush administration and an independent investigation both conclude that Freddie and Fannie are broken. The administration would like to create a department to supervise Freddie and Fannie but current HFSC chairman Barney Frank says no. In fact he says much more then no:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
So fast forward five years and now Freddie and Fannie have broken down just as was warned, so does current HFSC chairman Barney Frank admit that he did not know what he was talking about or that he lied? No. He blames the Bush administration, who had warned him five years ago of the coming breakdown, and pats himself on the back for coming up with a massive bailout for the mess that he denied even existed.  
My guess is that most Republicans voting down the supervision of Freddie and Fannie were afraid they would be lambasted by Frank and the media as cold, heartless Republicans who want to put poor people out on the street.
Shoot, anybody who dared to question Franklin Raines was a racist.
| Medical attention, seek it now Billy. |
Tell me were you obtain yours so I can avoid it. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 13:09:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I only trumpeted his funny rejoinder to Republican whining about Pelosi on Monday. |
I find all his rejoinder funny in light of this:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
-Barney Frank- |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 15:45:51 [Permalink]
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Your delusion is that you are trying to blame Barney Frank for things that occurred when he was in the minority.
Frankly (pun intended) you are a delusional idiot.
Maybe he was wrong (I haven't heard a single politician yet who seems to grasp the problem with the markets), but that is not relevant to what you are doing here. You are trying, desperately and pathetically, to avert blame from your own party onto Barney Frank.
I'm sure you can convince somebody of your case, but if you post it here its going to be called bullshit, because it is bullshit. Bush, the republican congress in 2003, and the republican chairman of the HFSC bear the blame for not restructuring the mortgage industry at that time.
So lets call it like it is, republicans missed the chance to avert this problem. They KNEW what could happen. So the conclusion is, when they have the legislative majority and the exec, that they failed to act.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 20:19:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Interesting catch Bill. Here is an article on it:
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
I doubt that the handover would have prevented the overall meltdown that took place, especially since the Bush administration was hot to deregulate, and that Fanny and Freddy were for being moved to executive branch regulations. But I dunno…
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Barney was 180 degrees wrong.
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 20:22:42 [Permalink]
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How much money did Obama take from Freddy and Fanny over the last two years?
A true fool is one that continues to deny that they have been fooled when evidence has been presented that they were fooled.
This person is an intentional moron. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 21:25:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
How much money did Obama take from Freddy and Fanny over the last two years?
A true fool is one that continues to deny that they have been fooled when evidence has been presented that they were fooled.
This person is an intentional moron.
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And even worse is the person that only picks up the facts he likse; carving the truth into a shape that serve his purposes.
This person is effectively a liar. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 21:34:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
And even worse is the person that only picks up the facts he likse; carving the truth into a shape that serve his purposes.
This person is effectively a liar.
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Are you retarded?
Those are the same numbers I posted!!!
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 01:24:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by Simon
And even worse is the person that only picks up the facts he likse; carving the truth into a shape that serve his purposes.
This person is effectively a liar.
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Are you retarded?
Those are the same numbers I posted!!!
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So you're Okay with McCain taking money from Freddy and Fanny, but if Obama does it, it is suspicious? Am I reading you correctly here? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 06:00:31 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dude |
| Your delusion is that you are trying to blame Barney Frank for things that occurred when he was in the minority. |
No I am not. I am blaming him for the meltdown of Fannie and Freddie, which occurred on Barney's watch as HFSC Chairman. I also call him a coward and a liar for then blaming it all on the Bush administration after the Bush Administration wanted to set up a department to supervise Freddie and Fannie back in 2003 and Barney said hell no:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
| Frankly (pun intended) you are a delusional idiot. |
And the more you try and defend Frank the more you prove your roll of puppet for the Democratic Puppet Master. The fact that you try and defend this clown should disqualify you from everything good and decent in this world.
You think?!?!?!?! Maybe he lied???
| (I haven't heard a single politician yet who seems to grasp the problem with the markets), |
Yet here they are voting on a $850 billion pork bill that supposedly if it wasn't past last week the market should have died by now.
| but that is not relevant to what you are doing here. You are trying, desperately and pathetically, to avert blame from your own party onto Barney Frank. |
I am showing that Nancy Pelosi is a liar when she says this mess a result of the failed policy of the Bush administration and ignores people in her own party, such as Frank, who blew off Republican warnings and attempts at regulating Fannie and Freddie and then blamed the Bush when the warning came true. What a bunch of clowns. Yet the people in their district and abroad eat this ---- up with a spoon?!?!?!?!?
Have you watched the CSPAN-2 YOUTUBE videos of Frank, Maxine Waters, and other Democratic Reps at the 2004 regulatory hearing blasting Republicans for trumping up panic and wanting to cut housing for poor people by trying to regulate Freddie and Fannie as well as claiming that Freddie and Fannie were in great shape thanks to the hard work of Franklin Rains and others? What a mockery!
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
-Barney Frank-
And I have no political party anymore. I have seen the dangers in blindly giving my allegiance to one party, maybe you should as well...
| I'm sure you can convince somebody of your case, but if you post it here its going to be called bullshit, |
You can call it whatever you wish but the facts are what it is.
But you have yet to prove that. So far all you have done is jump up and down and call me names.
Bush, the republican congress in 2003, and the republican chairman of the HFSC bear the blame for not restructuring the mortgage industry at that time.
So lets call it like it is, republicans missed the chance to avert this problem. They KNEW what could happen. So the conclusion is, when they have the legislative majority and the exec, that they failed to act. |
So let me get this straight, because the Bush administration wanted to regulate Freddie and Fannie back in 2003 but because of Frank and others in the congress who either lied on the status of Freddie and Fannie or they just did not know what the hell they were talking about the attempt was killed yet you blame the Bush administration for not getting any legislation through rather then the ones who thwarted the legislation and denied that a problem existed? Your brainwashed... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 06:23:50 [Permalink]
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When the Republicans have control of Exec and Legislature and some bill cannot be passed, it is the Democrats fault. When the Republicans control the Exec and the Democrats control the Legislature and some bill cannot be passed, it is the Democrats fault. When the Democrats will control both the Exec and Legislature and some bill cannot be passed, it is the Democrats fault.
Terrorists. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 06:29:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
So you're Okay with McCain taking money from Freddy and Fanny, but if Obama does it, it is suspicious? Am I reading you correctly here?
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Nope, I will not be voting for McCain. Although, at least McCain did sponsor a bill which would regulate Freddy and Fanny. I would have preferred that Freddy and Fanny were decoupled from the Federal government. They were encouraging the selling and then buying up these bad loans for the purpose of making a fast profit. They did this in the knowledge that being tied to the Federal government that they would not personally suffer for their bad long term investments.
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 06:59:32 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by pleco |
| When the Republicans have control of Exec and Legislature and some bill cannot be passed, it is the Democrats fault. |
No. It is the fault of all who voted down the attempt to regulate Freddie and Fannie whether that be a dem or a pub. In light of current events it makes their vote look like a dumbass attack or that they lied. Again, whether they are a pub or a dem is irrelevant to the fact that they killed any attempt to avoid the mess we have today.
Conclusion: They were horribly wrong or they lied by denying a known problem existed.
My guess is that any pub who voted against any supervision was afraid of being lambasted for taking away poor people's houses if he voted for supervision of Freddie and Fannie but that is just my guess.
| When the Republicans control the Exec and the Democrats control the Legislature and some bill cannot be passed, it is the Democrats fault. |
No. It is the responsibility of all who voted the bill down. This should not be as complicated as your making it.
| When the Democrats will control both the Exec and Legislature and some bill cannot be passed, it is the Democrats fault. |
No. (see above)
What ever, dude. I never claimed this was a pub vs. dem issue. I have simply pointed out the silly charge by Nancy Pelosi that this is all the pubs fault when most from her party have been rejecting warnings and have lambasted any attempt to supervise Freddie and Fannie as a trumped up charge by pubs in order to kick poop people out of their houses and put them on the street for over 5 years now as a joke. And they continued to lie about the status of Freddie and Fannie all the way through the Democratic convention. Yet you would rather ignore this activity and blame Bush because he could not get his attempt to supervise Freddie and Fannie through because of all these lies and false accusations about this being some witch hunt on the poor. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bailout rejected by the House
