|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 10/03/2008 : 08:32:04 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
No. It is the responsibility of all who voted the bill down. This should not be as complicated as your making it. |
Yet you know that a vote for a bill is based on more than just one part of the bill. Bills are complex, the reasons to vote for or against them are often complex.| I have simply pointed out the silly charge by Nancy Pelosi that this is all the pubs fault... |
No, you were trying to blame it all on Barney Frank for a while, even after you were reminded that Frank was not in control of either the committee, the House, or the Democrats.
Of course, it appears that you may just be parroting Fox News, Bill. Get this:Baier aired two comments Frank made in 2003 expressing confidence in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and asserted that oversight legislation "was blocked," while omitting entirely any mention of Frank's support for a bill in 2005 and, as chair of the committee, his spearheading legislation in 2007 to strengthen oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. | Yet you would rather ignore this activity and blame Bush because he could not get his attempt to supervise Freddie and Fannie through because of all these lies and false accusations about this being some witch hunt on the poor. |
It's funny to see you claim that the Republicans who voted against that bill did so out of cowardice. Hell, according to Fox News' Bret Baier,But fearing that they didn't have the votes to pass it, Republicans didn't even bring it up on the Senate floor. Actually, there were two bills offered to the Senate on this subject, S.1508 and S.1656. The Library of Congress doesn't show a record of the latter being voted on in committee. McCain was a co-sponsor of S.1508, but not of the other. S.1508 was "Ordered to be reported" by the committee, but that's the last thing that happened to it, on April 1, 2004.
The House, meanwhile, had the "Secondary Mortgage Market Enterprises Regulatory Improvement Act," H.R. 2575. Here is all the action on it:6/24/2003:
Referred to the House Committee on Financial Services.
7/9/2003:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Capital Markets,
Insurance and Government Sponsored Enterprises.
9/25/2003:
Committee Hearings Held.
So the Republicans (who controlled Congress) never put any of three bills for Freddie/Fannie oversight to more than a single committee vote. Bush, as the leader of the controlling party at that point in time, is clearly at fault for not being able to rally his party's members and for not introducing legislation that could have been passed.
Forgot something:...Barney Frank is awesome
for his witty remark...
— Bill scott
Oh Barney Frank is a man
of the people who takes
on the big bad repubs
and Bushie, yeah
Barney!!!!!!!! Vote him
in for another 30 years
of politics.
Yeah Barney!!!!
— Bill scott |
|
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
 |
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 12:45:09 [Permalink]
|
I feel extremely uneasy about the passage of this bill, not in some small part because Bush was so for it. A guest commenter on The Colbert Report named Naomi Klein was there promoting her new book: The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Basically her point was that this Bush administration has used "disasters" to panic people into approving measures they otherwise would not. Think using 9-11 as an excuse to invade Iraq. Where the real money was made in Iraq, as many of you know, was not in oil but in private security contracts. Billions of tax payer dollars bled from government coffers into the hands of private industry in the form of no-bid contracts. War was a pretext to fleece the American people.
So now we have this economic crisis and "oh, noes!" we have to do something drastic. This time billions of dollars of private debt has been shifted onto the American taxpayer. First they empty our wallets, then they hand us the check. If you gave the mafia free rein to do whatever they wanted for 8 years I doubt they could have so successfully gouged the American public. Bush and his entire administration are criminals beyond measure. I'm just sick that this is happening and nothing can be done to stop it.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/03/2008 13:19:14 |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 12:56:16 [Permalink]
|
Oh, in regards to the bailout plan: 192 private economists and business school professors signed a statement opposing the plan. Bush's measured response? "I don't care what somebody on some college campus says."
Tony Soprano couldn't have said it any better.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
|
calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 16:02:03 [Permalink]
|
Government control of major industries... in this case, partial ownership...
Mussolini preferred to call this form of government Corporatism, better known as Fascism.
|
|
|
|
Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 16:29:47 [Permalink]
|
Better than usual... you get into spitting distance from the truth this time. Of course, the next instant you back up precipitately yelping like a little girl (which would have swallowed a live chihuahua).
Governmental corporation is indeed an aspect of fascism. As well as many capitalist nations especially since the great depression and WWII, including the US and is hardly characteristic. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
|
|
|
calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 17:54:57 [Permalink]
|
Anyone bother to look at Obama's lawsuit against Citibank using the CRA to force bad loans to be made? This is one of the major causes of the current problem.
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 18:18:58 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by calebjones1234
Anyone bother to look at Obama's lawsuit against Citibank using the CRA to force bad loans to be made? |
He was a lawyer for Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. He didn't sue Citibank, his client did. They sued for racial equity when financial equity exists, the banks always had the choice to not make loans.| This is one of the major causes of the current problem. |
And the Bush administration has sued banks for precisely the same reason. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 18:45:44 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
[quote]He was a lawyer for Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. He didn't sue Citibank, his client did.
|
Did Obama make money from fostering the current problem?
If he was too stupid to understand that giving loans to people that can not afford to pay them back... WTF?
He is either a moron or a opportunist thief out for himself off the back of the poor.
|
|
|
|
Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 19:16:37 [Permalink]
|
That's retarded to a whole new level. Several new levels actually.
Is Manson's lawyer responsible of murder?
Of course not, as a lawyer; Obama's job was to represent his client; not to make judgement call about the validity of the claim. That what the judge is being paid for.
Next bit of retardation, of course, is your claim that the lawsuit had anything to do with the crisis.
Which is not the issue; of coure. As far as I can tell, the client felt he fulfilled the objective conditions for the loan and got only rejected because of the colour of his skin.
The case was settled out of court.
Of course; this lawsuit has nothing to do with forcing the banks to attribute mortgage they should not offer.
And a last one too... Caleb believes that the subprime mortgage crisis was caused by giving loan to low income people.
Of course, the problem came from the housing bubble and people speculating on the rising house cost. Not really a problem minorities contributed to. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 10/03/2008 19:17:16 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2008 : 22:47:18 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by calebjones1234
If he was too stupid to understand that giving loans to people that can not afford to pay them back... WTF? |
How, exactly, was the lawsuit about forcing the bank to give loans to people who couldn't afford them? How did Obama make any money "off the back of the poor" as a result of the lawsuit?
After all, Citibank paid the attorneys' fees, and according to your logic, they didn't lend to people who were poor prior to the lawsuit. Obama, therefore, made his money from the lawsuit off the backs of the middle- and upper-classes. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 10:04:53 [Permalink]
|
So the red herrings of our troll aside, what do the rest of you skeptics think about the bailout plan? Was it a necessary evil or were we just unnecessarily shafted again? I'm curious to hear opinions. To my surprise, it seems both liberals and conservatives were and are against the bailout.
An MSN poll, which in my experience tends to skew slightly liberal, asked "How confident are you that the financial bailout package approved by Congress will ease the economic crisis?" Out of four possible answers, a whopping 60% voted the most negative option available: "Not at all. This will help Wall Street, but it isn't going to do anything for the rest of us." By contrast, only 4% voted for the most positive answer: "Very. All that money will ease the credit crunch and that will help the overall economy."
So if so many Americans were against this legislation, why did it pass? Is this a case of our elected representatives taking an unpopular stand for the good of the nation? Or a case of the whores in Washington ignoring the pleas of the people for personal gain? Opinions? Comments?
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
|
Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 11:28:52 [Permalink]
|
I personally, think it was necessary.
I also think that the situation was created by people helping themselves with the cash-bpx. Greed; plain bad management as well as straightfoward fraud.
The regulatory agencies severely dropped the ball too. Basically; everybody was happy helping themselves knowing that they were not fleecing anybody real... just the American people...
Hopefully; these multiple frauds should lead to punishment and accountability from the culprits... I don't expect it to ever happen. At best a few second stringers might get in trouble.
Sadly, looking at the bill and the 150 billions in 'sweeteners' that it took to get it to pass (wasn't 'earmarks' a buzzword just a few weeks ago?) I don't think anything is going to change in the corrupt system...
Regardless of who caused the crisis, however, it is a reality. And I don't think that we can afford to let the situation to fester. Something needs to be done. Sucks monkey balls by packs of twelve; but what else is there to do? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
|
|
|
calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 21:03:59 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Simon
I personally, think it was necessary.
|
How is creating almost 1 Trillion NEW dollars going to help?
You do understand that when NEW dollars are created and there is no commensurate increase in real wealth that that dollars in your pocket devalue?
This means that your past labor has been devalued, do you understand?
|
|
|
|
calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 21:07:00 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by H. Humbert
So the red herrings of our troll aside, what do the rest of you skeptics think about the bailout plan?
|
Manifesto
of the Communist Party
1848
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state |
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2008 : 21:45:35 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by calebjones1234
Manifesto
of the Communist Party
1848 |
So now caleb has found the [size] forum tags, and in two threads thinks that argumentum ad big letters buys him something. And he's lecturing us about inflation?! 
The guy ridicules himself.
Hey, caleb: tell us again about how Obama's failure to engage in illegal activity really means that he won't be looking out for the welfare of the citizenry. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Bailout rejected by the House
