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hholdings
New Member
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2008 : 19:08:26
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With the Republican Party fighting among themselves, some are investigating the possibility of establishing a new major political party: The Christian Conservative Party. At this point, it needs a leader to forge the way to success. The new party would be built from ground up and commence immediately after the national election if it can find the leadership. The concept is to find christian conservatives to run for local, city, state and federal positions, rather than just run for the presidency ever four years.
The projection at the federal level is that about 25% of federal offices could be won in 4-8 years. It would split the Republican and Democratic parties so that, initially, the democratic office holders would represent approximately 45%, the republican office holders 30% and the Christian Conservative Party (CCNP) 25%. It is estimated that the CCNP would come from southern states (TX, LA, MS, AL, GA, SO, NC, TN, AR, OK, KY, WV, VA). The DNC would rule the northeast and CA. The RNC would control the mountain states and some of the midwestern states. Obviously, many of the states bordering these areas would be in contention. Long term, the projection is that the parties would even themselves out with each of them having about a third of the elected officials.
If this new party does not evolve, it is projected that the RNC will become a minor party. If this does come to fruition, the CCNP will become the conservative wing of the electorate, the RNC (i.e., Romey's, McCain's, Powell's, Well's, Schwarzenagger's, etc.) would become the moderate wing of the electorate and the DNC would become the liberal wing of the electorate.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 19:36:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by hholdings
With the Republican Party fighting among themselves, some are investigating the possibility of establishing a new major political party: The Christian Conservative Party. At this point, it needs a leader to forge the way to success. The new party would be built from ground up and commence immediately after the national election if it can find the leadership. The concept is to find christian conservatives to run for local, city, state and federal positions, rather than just run for the presidency ever four years.
The projection at the federal level is that about 25% of federal offices could be won in 4-8 years. It would split the Republican and Democratic parties so that, initially, the democratic office holders would represent approximately 45%, the republican office holders 30% and the Christian Conservative Party (CCNP) 25%. It is estimated that the CCNP would come from southern states (TX, LA, MS, AL, GA, SO, NC, TN, AR, OK, KY, WV, VA). The DNC would rule the northeast and CA. The RNC would control the mountain states and some of the midwestern states. Obviously, many of the states bordering these areas would be in contention. Long term, the projection is that the parties would even themselves out with each of them having about a third of the elected officials.
If this new party does not evolve, it is projected that the RNC will become a minor party. If this does come to fruition, the CCNP will become the conservative wing of the electorate, the RNC (i.e., Romey's, McCain's, Powell's, Well's, Schwarzenagger's, etc.) would become the moderate wing of the electorate and the DNC would become the liberal wing of the electorate.
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They already have one. The Libertarians. The extremist Christians have infiltrated the party and are taking it over.
Thier Presidential candidate this year is Bob Barr. His record speaks for itself.
They claim sufficient numbers but do not actually have sufficient numbers to pull off a viable third party. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 19:43:17 [Permalink]
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Yeah; we have been wondering about the future of the GOP.
Right now; it seems to me that the conservative are doing better than the more moderate Republicans. McCain has been booed at different meetings, for example, while Palin is pretty popular...
It seems to me that the base is moving toward the right rather than the centre.
So, if the party does split, I'd think that the conservatives might win and get to keep the name.
Also, I think that all but a few Republicans realize that, in today American system, the chance of a third party succeeding a extremely slim. As such, it would take a lot to see people leaving to form their own party...
More likely, in my opinion, might be that the GOP continue its derive and that some politicians present themselves under the independent party for local elections and might even move all the way to the democrats at the more national level.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 19:54:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
They already have one. The Libertarians. The extremist Christians have infiltrated the party and are taking it over.
Thier Presidential candidate this year is Bob Barr. His record speaks for itself.
They claim sufficient numbers but do not actually have sufficient numbers to pull off a viable third party. |
Huh. This doesn't make sense to me, since if there's one thing Conservative Christian aren't, it's Libertarian. They love to regulate myriad aspects of society and culture. A real Libertarian (as I understand it) would really not be in favor of Blue Laws, or having Christian imagery plastered all over government property, or "teaching the controversy" about evolution and creationism ID.
Actually, reading their website, that aspect seems to have fallen by the wayside.
In any event, for any 3rd party to have success, they'd need a huge and constant infusion of cash for a decade or more. And even then, it would be hard. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 20:07:18 [Permalink]
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hholdings.....
I think it is very unlikely that a political party with the word "Christian" in its title could become a viable political force in this country now, or at any time in the future. "Conservative" party might have a somewhat better chance.
Although a significant majority of Americans identify themselves as "Christians", a small percentage of that majority want religion, any religion, to become a dominant force in politics.
We have had a dangerously close brush with this kind of near-theocracy in the past eight years, and an overwhelming percentage of Americans have strongly realized that religion, Christian religion, was a good part of the problem with the unholy alliance that was the Bush administration.
The hideous mess that the neocons have created resulted in part from the type of insanity that is exemplified by strong "christian" views - lack of reason, ignorance, rejection of science, dogmatism, reliance on non-existent deities for "guidance", et cetera. Christian "thinking" is not thinking, it is obedience to nonsensical dictatorial dogma, invalidated authority, and classic Pavlovian conditioned response to indoctrination.
A viable third party may evolve out of the ashes of the Republican party, but it will not be overtly "Christian"! Not for a long time, anyway! A fiscal Conservative party and a social Conservative party might formalize, but both would remain splinters compared to the relatively coherent {currently) Democrats.
Eight years down the road, all bets are off!
Christian crazies will be with us for a long time, but their influence in politics and government reached a zenith during the Bush years, has been descending rapidly in the past two years, and will approach nadir in the upcoming liberal years, overseen by the to-be-successful Obama administration! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 20:18:22 [Permalink]
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No, I'm certain the real battle will be for control of the GOP, with the dead hands of the fundy/NeoCons retaining their grip for some time. A GOP regular recently said words to the effect, "Turn out the lights and hit the floor. Shots will be fired."
A few years from now, when the fundies are finally, kicking and screaming, tossed out, then those fundies will certainly go and create an extremely reactionary and laughably minor party.
In the meantime, the fundies will hang onto the GOP like a vulture with a choice piece of antelope liver, probably for years. In fact, the "PaleoCons," the traditional Barry Goldwater-type Conservatives, are more likely to form a separate party in the short term, if they are unable to pry the GOP from the dead hands of the Jeezus folks. But I suspect the PaleoCons and right-centrists will control the GOP itself again within five or six years.
Once they create a minor party of their own, that's merely a sign that they've had their asses kicked out of the GOP. They have no real political future after losing the GOP. They'll just spiral into increasingly batshit Dominionism, impotence, and isolation.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/28/2008 20:23:03 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2008 : 22:22:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
...then those fundies will certainly go and create an extremely reactionary and laughably minor party. |
The fundies already have a party: the perhaps mis-named Constitution Party (which Wikipedia calls the 3rd-largest party in the U.S.!). It has deep connections to Christian Dominionism and Christian "Reconstruction," and ties to our old pals Rushdoony and Ahmanson.
Really, once a person insists that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are based on Christian principles and the Founders were all Godly, returning to the fundamentals of those documents makes perfect sense for a fundamentalist Christian. And once you take a glance at the Constitution Party's social platform (more or less, "we're against everything even slightly deviant in the bedroom, but it should be up to the states to decide such matters"), it makes even more sense. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 08:11:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
No, I'm certain the real battle will be for control of the GOP, with the dead hands of the fundy/NeoCons retaining their grip for some time. A GOP regular recently said words to the effect, "Turn out the lights and hit the floor. Shots will be fired."
A few years from now, when the fundies are finally, kicking and screaming, tossed out, then those fundies will certainly go and create an extremely reactionary and laughably minor party.
In the meantime, the fundies will hang onto the GOP like a vulture with a choice piece of antelope liver, probably for years. In fact, the "PaleoCons," the traditional Barry Goldwater-type Conservatives, are more likely to form a separate party in the short term, if they are unable to pry the GOP from the dead hands of the Jeezus folks. But I suspect the PaleoCons and right-centrists will control the GOP itself again within five or six years.
Once they create a minor party of their own, that's merely a sign that they've had their asses kicked out of the GOP. They have no real political future after losing the GOP. They'll just spiral into increasingly batshit Dominionism, impotence, and isolation.
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Yeah; I am not sure that the neocon will lose this fight.
I hope, I'd rather the alternative to the Democrat party be less rather than more crazy; but I have trouble believing it. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 12:12:00 [Permalink]
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| The US political system will not support a third party as is. I'd LOVE to see it reformed to allow myriads of parties that have to work together to form a government. But alas that can only happen if those who are entrenched in the current system reform it and willingly give up their monopoly on power. Not gonna happen. |
-Chaloobi
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 14:35:14 [Permalink]
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Yeah; but the major parties also got a quasi monopoly on the money to put advertisement out.
Also, the media are treating pretty much all other parties are non existent.
That's pretty difficult to overcome...
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 15:55:39 [Permalink]
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| Unless I'm missing something the upside to having another right-wing party would be that it could split the conservative vote and give the Dems an edge. But my only experience is with the Canadian system, maybe things are different down there. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 17:49:05 [Permalink]
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A very, very rich man, such as Bill Gates or Warren Buffet, could - all by themselves or especially in concert - found and grow and sustain a new political party. Over the years it would take, the effort would consume most of the founder's enormous fortune. But a party of ideals could be created!
Now the question arises, why would a Gates, or a Buffet, or anyone devote most of a personal fortune to such an endeavor? Such a person would have to be a monumental patriot - or want obsessively to own the reins of power in the United States!
I believe if the Obama administration turns out to be even minimumly venal, or if it fails significantly in achieving it's stated goals because of the ingrained political power system that exists in Washington and within the Democratic party (infighting with the Clintons or the Pelosi power pack, et al); if Obama fails in any notable way, a person or persons as I described above will come forth, and a new party will be born!
If McPalin prevails, and we have another four years of the drift toward corporate fascism that we have experienced under the Cheney neocons (the cabal with the Bush label), then I think a new party is nearly inevitable - unless the Republicofascists make it illegal! The Democrats had better get it right this time! They may not get another chance! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2008 : 23:57:33 [Permalink]
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Dave......
Come on, Dave, Ahmanson's money isn't even a blip on the money radar compared to the likes of Buffet and Gates. I mean it would take multiple billions of dollars spent over several years of empire-building to actually create a viable third party!
Perot was on track, but he didn't have enough resource, he started too late, he gave up and then came back, and, mostly, with approximately $5B net worth, he didn't have nearly enough money. He quit cold after losing the '92 election! He would have been eating beans out of a can long before his thrust for the presidency even had a chance!
It's one thing to launch a campaign that effectively splits the ticket into a 3-way race, but quite another to win that 3-way race - particularly with the weird electoral college system we have!
Anybody or bodies trying it would soon find out that others can put up billions also! You have to be really huge to get into this game!
Probably would take two or three grabs at the ring before seizing it! And the momentum has to be maintained for four, six, eight, ten, maybe twelve years before a cumulative gain produces a decisive win!
Put the personal fortune of Buffet together with the personal fortune of Gates, put a real big chunk of it on the line for a dozen years, and you may have a real chance of buying America!
The peasants with a billion here or a billion there aren't even in the running! And the guys with the real money probably would rather have the money than the power!
Edit add-on:
George Soros, a famous liberal billionaire, shows up number 99 on the current Forbes list of the world's richest with a net worth of approximately nine billion.
He is undoubtedly one of many billionaires and mere millionaires supporting Obama, who has spent something between 800K and 1B on the current Democratic campaign. It would take far more money for many years to create and sustain a real third party!
And Obama is firmly in control (now) of one of the two established parties in our two-party system. Ahmanson isn't even on the Forbes list. I doubt that the pauper has a billion to his name! Trump the chump may trump him in net worth (about 3B) and all he wants is to caper before the TV cameras! |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 10/30/2008 00:35:37 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/30/2008 : 04:40:07 [Permalink]
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A new major political party would be nice but we ain't gonna get one unless:
Let us prey..... 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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The Creation of New Major Political Party
