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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2008 : 04:59:36
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Can anyone expect McCain to win, being out spent 6 to 1 and with this kind of coverage?
http://journalism.org/node/13307
I guess Foxnews is the most fair and balanced. MSNBC is disgraceful in its coverage of the election, openly campaigning for Obama.
http://www.journalism.org/node/13437
McCain negative media coverage
MSNBC 73% Negative
Fox News 40% Negative
CNN 61% Negative
Obama negative media coverage
MSNBC 14% Negative
Fox News 40% Negative
CNN 39% Negative
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 05:15:02 [Permalink]
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Or the McCain campaign is a disaster and MSNBC and others reflect that. Fox News is biased by downplaying the incompetence of the McCain-Palin ticket. "Fair and balanced"-coverage is an oxymoron. I want fair coverage over balanced coverage. If fair coverage isn't balanced, I don't need balanced coverage. And fair coverage often is not balanced.
Quite frankly, with the divisiveness of the McCain-Palin campaign, calling probably more than half of Americans not "real Americans", it is obvious that these people have no interest in representing the USA as a whole. I don't see how any sane American could support a ticket run such an internally divisive campaign, especially in a time like America is going through now. But than, I'm not an American and I'm at a loss at understanding about half of the USA most of the time. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 10/31/2008 : 05:43:18 [Permalink]
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The notion that if a news org runs something negative about a candidate that it is "bias" prima facie is incorrect. It's not bias to report that McCain has run a fairly horrible campaign based largely on smearing the other candidate as a socialist Muslim.
Seriously. Picking the dim-witted but attractive Sarah Palin as his VP? Saying that "the fundamentals of our economy are strong" and then "suspending" his campaign to address the economic crisis (But really not suspending it...)?
In this video, a McCain flak asserts that Obama pals around with anti-Semites. The reporter presses him to name one. The flak stumbles for a bit, and then has to resort to "we all know who it is" for a minute and then the interview concludes.
Mocking that and calling it out for the utter bullshit that it is isn't bias, it's straight up reporting.
It's the sort of reporting we should have gotten back when Gore was mocked for the "claims he invented the internet" lie that the RNC spread.
Edit: This is confirmed in the very links you provided:| For McCain, coverage began positively, but turned sharply negative with McCain's reaction to the crisis in the financial markets. As he took increasingly bolder steps to try and reverse the direction of the polls, the coverage only worsened. Attempts to turn the dialogue away from the economy through attacks on Obama's character did hurt Obama's media coverage, but McCain's was even more negative. |
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| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 10/31/2008 05:48:48 |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 06:07:49 [Permalink]
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| Another indication that McCain's campaign was a failure is the number of prominent republicans who said so openly. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 06:29:09 [Permalink]
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Robb said:
| I guess Foxnews is the most fair and balanced. |
HAHAHA!
Good one Robb!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 06:43:26 [Permalink]
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Oh, and as for being outspent... this is the first election in my lifetime where a democrat has had more money than the republican. A huge chunk of Obama's money comes from small donations, people giving $100 or so.
Still, the RNC is helping McCain make up the money gap. If you add in the RNC money (and consider Obama+DNC) the differences are not so great in terms of overall money available.
Then there are the third-party smear groups. Obama has told the left-leaning ones to stay out of it. Not so the right-leaning ones for McCain.
And lets consider VP picks... it is not OK for the nuclear arsenal of the USA to be in the hands of "joe six-pack" Sarah Palin (she is less intelligent than G. Bush). McCain, a 72 year old cancer patient, could kick the bucket Jan. 21st!
Then lets look at McCain's highly disorganized campaign. The economy is strong, but then its in such bad shape he decides to fake-suspend his campaign to go fix it. He promised to run a respectful campaign, but his people have called Obama everything from a Manchurian candidate to a socialist commie muslim terrorist.
How many prominent republicans have come out for Obama now? At least a dozen of those Georgetown cocktail party conservatives... you know, the ones that write for major publications, WSJ, NYT, WashPost, etc.... And Powel... Powel endorsed Obama!
There is a lot more to it than money and media coverage Robb.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 07:14:54 [Permalink]
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Okay look. MSNBC is biased. But most of the shows are not news shows. They are opinion shows.
I think CNN does try to be unbiased. But mostly I watch PBS.
In any case, McCain has run a terrible campaign and that's that. It's true that they are being outspent by Obama by a lot. But hey, shit happens. Usually it's the Republicans who way outspend the Democrats.
Suck it up Robb. Deep down you don't want McPalin anyway. The Obama campaign is just trying to save you from yourself... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 07:59:44 [Permalink]
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Robb, in all of my years of at least moderatly keeping track of political doin's, I have never seen the beat of McCain's current campaign. And I'm not saying this as the flaming liberal that I am, but as an interested observer. His campaign has been a 'tarded monkey trying to fuck a greasy football.
He has only the most tenous control over his staff and evidently none over his partner -- Palin; what was he thinking?! He goes from smear to stunt and back to smear, only occasionally touching on the very real issues facing the country today, and much of his plans for those issues won't cut it. He gets easily confused, as we've seen in the debates, and angers easily. Also impulsive, and the list continues.
That One could beat him like a gong with little more than lunch money and a bus ticket to the next event.
And yet, I still make no predictions for previously stated reasons. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 08:15:11 [Permalink]
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Personally; I think that Obama has objectively shown himself to be the better candidate.
He came out as smarter, more genuinely concerned and more organized.
McCain came out as having little real program; trying to compensate his lack of ideas by pulling on political trick after the other and ready to lie and smear his opponents when needed.
Many people seem to be seeing the same, including many Republicans and many news reporter. It is not unfair and unbalanced if you report the facts... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Vic Daring
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:48:32 [Permalink]
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| If Obama says the sky is blue, and McCain insists it is green, then "Obama and McCain Clash on Sky Issue" is NOT balanced coverage. |
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:54:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Oh, and as for being outspent... this is the first election in my lifetime where a democrat has had more money than the republican. A huge chunk of Obama's money comes from small donations, people giving $100 or so.
Still, the RNC is helping McCain make up the money gap. If you add in the RNC money (and consider Obama+DNC) the differences are not so great in terms of overall money available. |
I am not saying it is good or bad just than Obama has raised more cash than McCain.
| And lets consider VP picks... it is not OK for the nuclear arsenal of the USA to be in the hands of "joe six-pack" Sarah Palin (she is less intelligent than G. Bush). McCain, a 72 year old cancer patient, could kick the bucket Jan. 21st! |
Blah, Blah, blah. All republican candidates are dumb. I get it alraedy.
| Then lets look at McCain's highly disorganized campaign. The economy is strong, but then its in such bad shape he decides to fake-suspend his campaign to go fix it. He promised to run a respectful campaign, but his people have called Obama everything from a Manchurian candidate to a socialist commie muslim terrorist. |
I agree mostly. Remember I did not vote for McCain.
There is a lot more to it than money and media coverage Robb.
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Agreed, but that was not my point for the post. Only that networks other than foxnews have reported more negative stories about McCain. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 09:57:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Okay look. MSNBC is biased. But most of the shows are not news shows. They are opinion shows.
I think CNN does try to be unbiased. But mostly I watch PBS.
In any case, McCain has run a terrible campaign and that's that. It's true that they are being outspent by Obama by a lot. But hey, shit happens. Usually it's the Republicans who way outspend the Democrats.
Suck it up Robb. Deep down you don't want McPalin anyway. The Obama campaign is just trying to save you from yourself...
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I did not vote for McCain. Again your thoughts that people who vote for McCain are idiots. Say someting new for a change. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 10:03:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Robb, in all of my years of at least moderatly keeping track of political doin's, I have never seen the beat of McCain's current campaign. And I'm not saying this as the flaming liberal that I am, but as an interested observer. His campaign has been a 'tarded monkey trying to fuck a greasy football.
He has only the most tenous control over his staff and evidently none over his partner -- Palin; what was he thinking?! He goes from smear to stunt and back to smear, only occasionally touching on the very real issues facing the country today, and much of his plans for those issues won't cut it. He gets easily confused, as we've seen in the debates, and angers easily. Also impulsive, and the list continues.
That One could beat him like a gong with little more than lunch money and a bus ticket to the next event.
And yet, I still make no predictions for previously stated reasons.
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The reason I will not vote for either canidate is that they both do not care about our debt. Will Obama reduce out debt? If so, tell me how. I think the main focus of the campaign should have been how we are goiing to get rid of our debt instead it was on both sides how many programs we want to start with a vauge idea of how we will pay for them. Disgusting in my mind. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 10:11:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Agreed, but that was not my point for the post. Only that networks other than foxnews have reported more negative stories about McCain. |
Right. And the counter-argument to that is to ask if net works are required to be 100% balanced when one candidate is clearly incompetent.
To make the point more clear: suppose two people ran for President. Candidate A is Obama. Candidate B is a guy who, after winning the nomination, is revealed to be a drug abuser, serial womanizer, never have graduated from college (even though he claims to have graduated) and so on.
Moreover, while Candidate A runs on a coherent platform that includes a number of detailed plans, Candidate B mostly spends time attacking Candidate A by pushing lies and innuendo.
If this were the case, it would be foolish to expect the media to provide balanced coverage. Candidate B would deservedly receive significant negative press. And not because of any sort of bias, but because he just sucks!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 10:16:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
The reason I will not vote for either canidate is that they both do not care about our debt. Will Obama reduce out debt? If so, tell me how. I think the main focus of the campaign should have been how we are goiing to get rid of our debt instead it was on both sides how many programs we want to start with a vauge idea of how we will pay for them. Disgusting in my mind. |
I'm pretty sure that our debt right now isn't the problem. But I suppose that that's a different discussion. But you're right: Obama certainly isn't talking about getting rid of debt, and McCain's idea-- that by getting rid of so-called pork that we'll balance the budget-- is so patently false that, well, he deserves negative press to saying it.
So yes, if that's your main concern, then you were good to vote for someone else. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2008 : 10:18:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Vic Daring
If Obama says the sky is blue, and McCain insists it is green, then "Obama and McCain Clash on Sky Issue" is NOT balanced coverage.
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That's true. The McPalin campaign has made outrageous statements that the press doesn't call them on. Yesterday, Palin said that a 25% cut in defense spending would leave our troops defenseless. As though they will take the guns and bullets away from active troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was Bush who sent them in without proper body armer and properly armored vehicles, even with increases in spending. Palin blows this stuff out of her ass and it takes MSNBC to point it out, making them appear biased when they are only telling the truth.
Thing about MSNBC is that while they do have a liberal bias, they don't make shit up like Fox does. Fox doesn't stretch the truth. They flat out lie. They are fed talking points and told to use them.
As for other networks, it would be refreshing if they called baloney when McPalin does what they do so often. Or even when Obama's campaign does it. The myth is that there is a liberal media. But that's just hogwash. Most of the media is owned by large corporations now and most lean at least somewhat to the right. But old myths die hard. And if you are running a losing campaign, your gonna blame the media. Especially when you have that myth on your side.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bias?
