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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 06:57:51 [Permalink]
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At the end of the Clinton era there was a budget surplus, the economy was cooking along, global cooperation both economic and political was strong and growing... yeah, there were problems but I was optimistic. Then there was Bush. I remember thinking he'd roll back the meager environmental regulation we had. He'd hamper OSHA and there wouldn't be any work done on health care for the working poor.
Never in my wildest nightmares did I have a clue how bad a government could be. I haven't been optimistic about what our government might or could do in at least 7 years.
Until now. The hole the Republicans dug for this country is wide and deep and just climbing back to where the nation was in 2000 will take years. But I believe Obama has the brains and the attitude to make that happen. Imagine it, government with competence and integrity is a strong possibility here and there is reason for optimism once more. Woo hoo! |
-Chaloobi
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2008 : 08:37:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
We will see what he can do. I wonder how he will govern, toward the center like he campaigned or on the way left as he has voted in the past? I did like that he was campaigning for the next election already when he said that we cannot get everything done in one term. Kind of lets himself off the hook.
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Well, that's one way to see it. But the problems he is facing are huge. He knows he will not get a second chance if he has nothing to show after his first four years. I don't think he started his campaign early. I think he was being realistic. I think he needed to temper peoples expectations with a jolt of reality.
Would you trust him more if he said he could fix everything in four years? Now that would be typical of a politician... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 08:37:05 [Permalink]
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Robb, you call him "way left" in his voting record... but it only seems that way to people who sit on the far right. Its pretty funny to hear pundits and other talking heads repeat the nonsense about this country being a "center right" country... clearly that is something they just pull out of their ass.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 08:56:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
We will see what he can do. I wonder how he will govern, toward the center like he campaigned or on the way left as he has voted in the past? |
It only looks like far left to people who are standing so far to the right that they're on the verge of falling off the map.
I did like that he was campaigning for the next election already when he said that we cannot get everything done in one term. Kind of lets himself off the hook.
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You're blaming him for being realistic? 
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 09:34:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
What did he vote for that was "way left?" When he voted for immediate withdrawal of the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan?
Or maybe it wasn't a vote that you're talking about. Maybe it was when he stood on the Senate floor and demanded the release of the hundreds of thousands of people in prison who are there largely because they are poor people, and people of color? When he derided Hillary Clinton for working with corporations to try to achieve health care for all instead of working towards a European, or Canadian-style system? When he talked about how he was going to crack down on corporate crime? When he cried out to the House to ask them to begin impeachment proceedings against the criminals in power, and the investigation of the other living President's crimes? When he refused to agree with the bailout of the wealthy? When he said, even though this his election is a significant event in race relations in the U.S. that we still had a long way to go to repair the damage done? When he rejected the idea of turning the Presidential pulpit in to minister's pulpit? When he talked about the damage that so-called capitalism has done to the world/
Which thing did he do to make you think he was far left?
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He came to the center on guns and abortion to name two. Hey, he is our next president and I want him to succeed because I like this country. I believe he is a good man with the good of this country in mind. I just disagree that using government power to solve all problems is wrong and foolish. I also do not think that our debt problem will be addressed by Obama or the congress. Most of Obama's goals are not my problem with him it is his solutions that I do not agree with. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 09:39:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Robb
We will see what he can do. I wonder how he will govern, toward the center like he campaigned or on the way left as he has voted in the past? |
It only looks like far left to people who are standing so far to the right that they're on the verge of falling off the map.
I did like that he was campaigning for the next election already when he said that we cannot get everything done in one term. Kind of lets himself off the hook.
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You're blaming him for being realistic?
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No. He just never said that once during the election. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 10:07:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
He came to the center on guns and abortion to name two. Hey, he is our next president and I want him to succeed because I like this country. I believe he is a good man with the good of this country in mind. I just disagree that using government power to solve all problems is wrong and foolish. I also do not think that our debt problem will be addressed by Obama or the congress. Most of Obama's goals are not my problem with him it is his solutions that I do not agree with.
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He "came to the center" on everything. The center is just about as far right as you can reasonably get in an atmosphere of the government being used to transfer the wealth from everyone else to the extremely wealthy.
What we needed was someone who was actually on the left, but we settled for someone who was on the right, but very intelligent, and black, and a lot of people hoped that those two things meant he would be able to straighten something out. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 11/05/2008 10:07:56 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 10:58:18 [Permalink]
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You see....you beat the American public over the head with a bat enough times and they do finally come around.
ONE major thing put Obama in office - George W. Bush.
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 11:04:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
You see....you beat the American public over the head with a bat enough times and they do finally come around.
ONE major thing put Obama in office - George W. Bush.
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Well, I think the economy had something to do with it, and both parties slept through that one, and are still sleeping. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 11:10:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
No. He just never said that once during the election.
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Might well have been intentional. Judging by your reaction now how do you suppose the republican campaign could have used such an admission to their advantage within the last month?
This was a smart and well run campaign. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 11:24:13 [Permalink]
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I think it certainly WAS intentional.
Similarly, taxes are likely to rise, and, at least, not to drop immediately. But both candidates avoided mentioned it.
At lest he came around to a modicum of realism as early as he could. The current president as yet to do so after two terms in office... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 11:36:23 [Permalink]
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Actually, taxes need not rise. Spending needs to be cut and controlled. Our military budget is so bloated its pathetic. We should have twice the military we have for what we are paying. We can trim the fat, keep our technological edge, and maintain the best (and largest) military in the world for a good deal less than the current price.
There are a crapload of other federal agencies and departments that can be made more efficient as well.
Say nothing of the $10billion a month Iraq expense. Its time for iraq to stand up, and the only way they will do it is if we make them.
Then once we get some regulation and sound management restored to our financial and banking sector, implement a major manhattan style project for renewable energy, insist that the auto industry give us 100mpg cars, we can start our economy growing again.
Can we convince the neocons and reagan supply-siders that they are wrong though? If the current mess hasn't made them re-think then nothing likely will. It will probably be a fight to get things done.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 12:01:18 [Permalink]
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What now?
When are the next national elections? Sometime in 2009; no? I guess it means the dems will try to pass as much popular decision as possible before and withhold the more unpopular/controversial measures for after.
What do you think will be the first decisions of president Obama?
-Economy (another economic package aimed at the lower and middle classes)
-Iraq (announcing a schedule for the stepping down of the US presence there and negotiating Iraq's funding of part of the occupation's cost)
-Environment (plans for (mostly symbolic) green incentives)
-Health care (as announced during the campaign) |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2008 : 12:25:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
What do you think will be the first decisions of president Obama?
-Economy (another economic package aimed at the lower and middle classes)
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They need to deal with the economy now, somehow. I see they're saying that Obama has to quickly appoint a Sec. of Treasury to go to the international summit. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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The Official SFN US Elections Thread
