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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2008 : 12:31:01
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I don't know why but I run into people all the time in my area, upstate New York, that swear there is a wild sustained population of mountain lions here. Never mind that there has been no evidence of native mountain lions here in over 100 years. The evidence shows that there are no mountain lions east of the mississippi (except for Florida). Yet it seems the majority of the people believe they exist and they all have a cousin or a friend or an uncle that saw one. The DEC says there aren't any but there are quite a few people that say the DEC is secretly stocking them. It is really strange and frankly I don't get it.
There have been several cougars that have been shot or hit by cars east of the mississippi, but they invariable turn out to be escaped pets or zoo animals.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2008 : 13:09:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by furshur
I don't know why but I run into people all the time in my area, upstate New York, that swear there is a wild sustained population of mountain lions here. Never mind that there has been no evidence of native mountain lions here in over 100 years. The evidence shows that there are no mountain lions east of the mississippi (except for Florida). Yet it seems the majority of the people believe they exist and they all have a cousin or a friend or an uncle that saw one. The DEC says there aren't any but there are quite a few people that say the DEC is secretly stocking them. It is really strange and frankly I don't get it.
There have been several cougars that have been shot or hit by cars east of the mississippi, but they invariable turn out to be escaped pets or zoo animals.
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Naw, no mountain lions. Those folks are seeing Pumas.
EDIT: Also, why would the state government secretly stock mountain lions anyway???  |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 12/15/2008 13:10:47 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 14:06:41 [Permalink]
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Must just be ordinary catamounts.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 14:48:39 [Permalink]
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This falls into the Bigfoot Yarns category -- good stories, no cats and pretty much nonsense.
However, the times they are a'changin' and species' ranges are changing with them. These days, when I'm limping around the woods hunting, or just lallygaging & looking for snakes to pick up, I keep an eye peeled for tracks and scat (this last all but impossible to find in summer due to dung beetles). I've yet to find anything unexpected.
Would that it were true!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 14:50:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
Naw, no mountain lions. Those folks are seeing Pumas. |
Dangit, I was gonna make that joke. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 15:42:25 [Permalink]
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People also claim that they occasionally see moose in New Zealand...
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OK, moose were introduced some 100 years ago but failed to thrive. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 17:02:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
People also claim that they occasionally see moose in New Zealand...
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OK, moose were introduced some 100 years ago but failed to thrive.
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Is there any chance for a small population surviving somewhere?
NZ is a big place, no? And only a part of it is inhabited?
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 06:19:14 [Permalink]
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-30-mountain-lions_x.htm
It is certainly not comparable to bigfoot, no reason to think the east wont be repopulated now that hunting them is frowned upon. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 10:55:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Is there any chance for a small population surviving somewhere?
NZ is a big place, no? And only a part of it is inhabited?
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Not as big as eastern North America. Saying that, there are some pretty remote and inaccesible places. But there are also roads here and there and in my experience, the presence of moose will eventually lead to someone ending up with an automobile-induced-moose-lap-dance. There have been none so far... |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 11:46:15 [Permalink]
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| We have them here. Because of a shrinking habitat, they are seen more often that they used to be. Every once in a while a lion shows up in someones yard, or there is a mauling. It's not often, but they are around... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 13:14:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
A moose bit my sister. |
Don't forget about "RALPH" The Wonder Llama. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 13:30:59 [Permalink]
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| Yeah Moose don't generally avoid populated areas, they sure like train tracks in the snow and im sure they would be known if there were a population. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 17:35:30 [Permalink]
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I'm interested in a possible "nondescript" species of great apes reported in the mountains of southern Vietnam. They were referred to by soldiers and Marines as "rock apes" (not to be confused with the Barbary "apes" of Gibraltar, or the racist term sometimes used in Australia for Aborigines).
A former co-worker of mine who was in the US Army in Nam told me of seeing these. I never knew the guy to tell lies, so I took his account fairly seriously. Rock apes were, as he described them, large but not gigantic beasts or particularly humanoid, which traveled in well-organized groups which had "point men" leading them, and "flankers" on the sides. Such "military" behavior is well within that known for chimp troops. Some other accounts tell of rock apes trying to drag away sleeping Marines at night.
I've no idea whether "rock apes" are any more real than Sasquatch, but I think a scientifically undiscovered species of great apes in the boonies of South-east Asia at least is more likely than Bigfoot.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/16/2008 17:36:20 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 03:45:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I'm interested in a possible "nondescript" species of great apes reported in the mountains of southern Vietnam. They were referred to by soldiers and Marines as "rock apes" (not to be confused with the Barbary "apes" of Gibraltar, or the racist term sometimes used in Australia for Aborigines).
A former co-worker of mine who was in the US Army in Nam told me of seeing these. I never knew the guy to tell lies, so I took his account fairly seriously. Rock apes were, as he described them, large but not gigantic beasts or particularly humanoid, which traveled in well-organized groups which had "point men" leading them, and "flankers" on the sides. Such "military" behavior is well within that known for chimp troops. Some other accounts tell of rock apes trying to drag away sleeping Marines at night.
I've no idea whether "rock apes" are any more real than Sasquatch, but I think a scientifically undiscovered species of great apes in the boonies of South-east Asia at least is more likely than Bigfoot.
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I've heard a few of the yarns and strenuously doubted them, even back then. The best that I could find on it was this: The primate fauna of Vietnam, containing several endemic Endangered and Critically Endangered species, is considered one of the highest global conservation priorities by the IUCN/SSC Primate Specialist Group. Of the 25 primate species found in Vietnam, 5 are endemic (found only in Vietnam) and listed among the world's 25 most endangered primate species. A number of worthwhile programs were launched in Vietnam in the 1990s and have continued through the early part of the new century, broadly focused on the status of remaining wild populations, increasing levels of protection in existing parks and reserves, augmenting the national protected area system, establishing captive breeding colonies of threatened species, and building local capacity for conservation.
Vietnam's Endangered Primate Rescue Center was established in 1993 adjacent to the entrance of Cuc Phuong National Park. The park itself was the first in the country's national protected area system and was created specifically to protect remaining wild populations of the Critically Endangered Delacour's langur (Trachypithecus delacouri). Since its founding, the EPRC has grown to contain offices/residences, a quarantine station, 30 traditional primate enclosures, and two semi-free ranging enclosures.
Other than the captive bred primates, all of the animals at the EPRC are victims of poaching and the illegal animal trade. The animals are confiscated in cooperation with Vietnam's forest protection authorities all over the country. Primate species maintained at the facility include: Delacour's langur (Trachypithecus delacouri), Hatinh langur (Trachypithecus laotum hatinhensis), black langur (Trachypithecus laotum ebenus), Laos langur (Trachypithecus laotum laotum), gray langur (Trachypithecus crepusculus), Cat Ba langur (Trachypithecus poliocephalus), Francois' langur (Trachypithecus francoisi), Red-shanked douc langur (Pygathrix nemaeus), black-shanked douc langur (Pygathrix nigripes), gray-shanked douc langur (Pygathrix cinerea), white-cheeked gibbon (Nomascus leucogenys leucogenys), southern white-cheeked gibbon (Nomascus leucogenys siki), Gabriella's crested gibbon (Nomascus gabriellae), slow loris (Nycticebus bengalensis), and pygmy loris (Nycticebus pygmaeus).
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A fair number of primate species, but nothing even close to even chimp size.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 04:37:16 [Permalink]
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Yeah, Filthy, I'm far from convinced that scientists should even go looking for "rock apes." But the part that sticks in my mind is that the description and reported behavior are not as bizarre as that of obviously phony "cryptoids" such as Bigfoot, the Yeti, or Chupacabra. The very modesty of the reports tickles my curiosity.
I'm not a big buff of the crank cryptozoologists, but new and surprising species are being found. The African Mountain Gorilla was thought to be a legend until 1902. The Bonobo was only discovered by science in 1928. Homo floresiensis may have survived as recently as the Portuguese arrival in Indonesia. An unexpected bovine animal called the Saola was found in the forests of Vietnam itself in the 1990's.
But none of that is evidence of rock apes. I think it's less than an even-money bet that they exist. But I can't think of any good reason they would be impossible. And wouldn't it be cool if they were real?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/17/2008 04:53:00 |
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Eastern mountain lions
