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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2009 : 05:05:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
From Obama's Speech yesterday:
| our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint. |
Sounds good but is it true? Doesn't our security eminate from our economy, military and the peoples will? Just because we have a just cause, set a good example and are restrained in our responses does not make our country secure. |
Torturing people with waterboarding (for example) creates fear and hate: Exactly what Bush has promoted the last 8 years.
Americans captured by hostile forces are more likely today to get tortured and/or killed than 10 years ago, just because hostiles know that they are seriously screwed if they in turn get captured by Americans.
Ideology does not make us secure. |
It sets a good example, and demonstrates good faith. If "the greatest democracy in the world" don't bother behaving well, who the fcuk else will?
Another:
| and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you. |
Not smart to say since he condones killing innocents before they can be born.
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Why bother about unborns, when living, breathing innocent women and children are being slaughtered on the supposedly American watch. Israel is America's favourite child of Democracy in the middle east, but America is not acting as a dutiful parent here.
Gaza is a fucking disgrace.
Edited to fix grammar. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 01/23/2009 00:14:39 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 13:03:55 [Permalink]
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I've heard that some people are trying to challenge Obama's presidency based on the messed-up oath that Roberts had him take; well, that's just been rendered irrelevent.
Even better:
Barack Obama has been sworn in as US president for the second time in two days, because one word was given out of order during Tuesday's ceremony.
The Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court, John Roberts, administered the oath again at the White House.
The decision to repeat the oath was taken out of an abundance of caution, an official said.
But Mr Obama joked: "We decided it was so much fun...." before adding: "We're going to do it very slowly."
In contrast to the first oath-taking, Mr Obama did not swear on a Bible and his wife Michelle was not at his side. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 13:05:20 [Permalink]
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| Yeah but I heard that they are now wondering if he has to re-sign all the exec order he made...sheesh |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 21:35:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
The center section of the piece was Lord of the Dance which has particular significance for my religion.
He seems genuine about inclusion.
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Wicca?
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Yes. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 21:57:25 [Permalink]
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Constitutionally he becomes president at noon on the 20th. No oath required.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 07:57:02 [Permalink]
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Constitutionally, the oath is required.
Article II Section 1 Clause 8
...Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
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"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 07:59:32 [Permalink]
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"So help me God" or a Bible is not required byt the Constitution
So if the second oath did not have either, Obama may actually be our first legitimate and constitutionally approved President. |
"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 08:19:09 [Permalink]
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I think that the first Oath was good, for all of Chief Justice Whitebread's bobble (which, as much as I'd like to make the accusation, was not intentional). The context was correct and the words were all there. However, Obama was wise to give him a mulligan on it, and redo the Oath. That took a little of the shrillness out of the neocon's pathetic squealing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 08:23:03 [Permalink]
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OOOO Scandal!!! SCANDAL!!! Begin the investigations!!!
You think Woodward and Bernstein are banging there heads against the wall |
"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 08:29:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
He became President at noon on the 20th. He needed the Oath to legally act as President.
Edited to add: besides, there are other reasons the inauguration was a sham. 
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How dare you contaminate my precious mojo-box with Fox News! 
I thought the music was excellent, especally the quartet. Yo can surely saw that big fiddle and Itzhak was, as usual, beyond compare on the little one.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 01/23/2009 08:30:35 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 09:09:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Torturing people with waterboarding (for example) creates fear and hate: Exactly what Bush has promoted the last 8 years.
Americans captured by hostile forces are more likely today to get tortured and/or killed than 10 years ago, just because hostiles know that they are seriously screwed if they in turn get captured by Americans. |
Maybe, they hated the U.S. before Gitmo and Gearge Bush. My point is that if we stop waterboarding that does not make the U.S any safer.
It sets a good example, and demonstrates good faith. If "the greatest democracy in the world" don't bother behaving well, who the fcuk else will? |
We should behave well and act consistent with our beliefs but that does not make us any safer.
I am not opposed to changing they way we do some things. But we must remember that the safety of the U.S. depends on our economy, military and will to be secure.
Closing Gitmo won't make a difference to how the terrorists think of us but Spain may like us again. How does that serve to protesct Americans? Giving these people at Gitmo fair trials are needed, but closing Gitmo before they have a plan is irresponsible. Where will the prisoners go? Obama does not even know. Remember 61 prisoners there have been released and recaptured because they have been involved in terrorist activity after release. 85 prisoners were ready to be released but their home countries will not take them. What do we do with them? Doesn't this smack of invading Iraq without an exit plan?
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 09:32:22 [Permalink]
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Robb said:
Maybe, they hated the U.S. before Gitmo and Gearge Bush. My point is that if we stop waterboarding that does not make the U.S any safer.
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Actually, according to counter terrorism experts, our treatment of detainees has made us less safe Robb.
The only reason we need to stop waterboarding people anyway is that it is a warcrime. The US has executed people for waterboarding our troops in the past. Enough said.
I'll also not comment on the obvious failure of logic your sentence exhibits.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 09:56:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by Simon
The center section of the piece was Lord of the Dance which has particular significance for my religion.
He seems genuine about inclusion.
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Wicca?
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Yes.
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Yeah!
What do I win? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2009 : 10:06:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Torturing people with waterboarding (for example) creates fear and hate: Exactly what Bush has promoted the last 8 years.
Americans captured by hostile forces are more likely today to get tortured and/or killed than 10 years ago, just because hostiles know that they are seriously screwed if they in turn get captured by Americans. |
Maybe, they hated the U.S. before Gitmo and Gearge Bush. My point is that if we stop waterboarding that does not make the U.S any safer.
It sets a good example, and demonstrates good faith. If "the greatest democracy in the world" don't bother behaving well, who the fcuk else will? |
We should behave well and act consistent with our beliefs but that does not make us any safer.
I am not opposed to changing they way we do some things. But we must remember that the safety of the U.S. depends on our economy, military and will to be secure.
Closing Gitmo won't make a difference to how the terrorists think of us but Spain may like us again. How does that serve to protesct Americans? Giving these people at Gitmo fair trials are needed, but closing Gitmo before they have a plan is irresponsible. Where will the prisoners go? Obama does not even know. Remember 61 prisoners there have been released and recaptured because they have been involved in terrorist activity after release. 85 prisoners were ready to be released but their home countries will not take them. What do we do with them? Doesn't this smack of invading Iraq without an exit plan?
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1) It's a war crime, it's enough for the US never to apply it.
2) Torturing people is bad PR.
Sure a lot of Muslims hate the US either way, but a lot more are on the fence, or not hating the US enough to launch terror attacks. Torturing people is only giving them a nudge in the wrong direction.
Remember that, after 911, most of the nations in the world, including most of the Muslims nations, were supporting the US.
3) Allies, Spain or France or in the Muslim world, are important.
terror networks are international, and defeating them will be much easier with the cooperation of the other nations these networks are implanted in.
Furthermore, other nations like France, had had their own encounters with Islamic terrorism in the past. They are surveying these terror networks for their own interests. Cooperation, once again will help increasing the wealth of information we dispose of.
4) We know that the majority of people in Guantanamo have been released because, despite years of research and torture, they have not been proven to have done anything wrong.
5) Not surprisingly, after these years of wrongful incarceration and torture, these guys are pissed of enough to join the terrorists. Hence, the Bush politic actively spend millions to turn innocents into terrorist, counter-productive much?
6) It's A FUCKING WAR CRIME.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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President Obama
