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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2009 : 06:07:21
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Not only do Glenn "Chickenhawk" Beck, Newt "Chickenhawk" Gingrich and other personally cowardly GOP tools insult President Obama in this collection of clips, they Glenn Beck also defame defames the US Navy in a time of crisis and in a manner that might have gotten a Democrat lynched.
(BTW, am I the only one whose fist often aches to punch Glenn Beck's smug excuse for a face? Like George W. Bush, he has that effect upon me.)
Now, after Obama quietly deliberated and then authorized the use of force as a contingency against the Somali pirates holding an American hostage, and after Navy SEALs did their grim work, FOX is looking like complete idiots. But what else is news?
[Corrected to limit my Navy-bashing accusation to Glenn Beck. Thanks for the correction, Machi4velli!]
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/16/2009 20:57:54
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 10:28:41 [Permalink]
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On a similar note:
Rush accuses Obama of not doing anything about the pirates.
| RUSH: (impersonating Obama) "Guys, we're talking housing. I haven't got time to talk about the pirates. Americans, what do you mean? We're talking about housing right now, guys, thanks very much." As the AP says: "Obama's tests are coming early: first from the borderline rogue government in North Korea, then from stateless bandits preying on shipping lanes --" Look, the Somali pirates are Muslims. If this has happened in Afghanistan, what would we be doing? If Americans had been taken hostage in Afghanistan, had been attacked there, what would we be doing? Would Hillary Clinton be out there saying, (impersonating Clinton) "Well, the, ha-ha-ha-ha, world has to come together just like we did with Morocco way back. We were the first one ones to, they were the first ones, ha-ha-ha-ha." What an inept bunch. They don't know what to do here. The crew took it upon themselves, as did the captain, to take matters into their own hands to try to alleviate the situation that they find themselves in, but Mrs. Clinton warned about this, and even the AP is reminding us that she did. |
Cut to a couple of days later after Obama does take action.
| RUSH: You know what we have learned about the Somali pirates, the merchant marine organizers that were wiped out at the order of Barack Obama, you know what we learned about them? They were teenagers. The Somali pirates, the merchant marine organizers who took a US merchant captain hostage for five days were inexperienced youths, the defense secretary, Roberts Gates, said yesterday, adding that the hijackers were between 17 and 19 years old. Now, just imagine the hue and cry had a Republican president ordered the shooting of black teenagers on the high seas. |
The above links come right from Limbaugh's site. Even the dito heads,
if they had brains, well, nevermind...
So, no matter what Obama was going to do, or did, Rush was going to be against it. Basically, Rush's position has nothing to do with right or wrong, good or bad. It only has to do with being anti Obama no matter what he does.
Rush may be the biggest sleaze bag in America. And that's saying something.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2009 : 10:51:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Not only do Glenn "Chickenhawk" Beck, Newt "Chickenhawk" Gingrich and other personally cowardly GOP tools insult President Obama in this collection of clips, they also defame the US Navy in a time of crisis and in a manner that might have gotten a Democrat lynched.
(BTW, am I the only one whose fist often aches to punch Glenn Beck's smug excuse for a face? Like George W. Bush, he has that effect upon me.)
Now, after Obama quietly deliberated and then authorized the use of force as a contingency against the Somali pirates holding an American hostage, and after Navy SEALs did their grim work, FOX is looking like complete idiots. But what else is news?
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Alas, I cannot call these people a pack of Limbaughesque pussies afraid to get their hands dirty, much less bloody in the service of their country. I cannot call them backstabbers of American servicemen and befoulers of the ideals and and ethics of our Founding fathers. Nor can I accuse them of being lying propagandists in the hire of treasonous scumbags willing to aid in subversion the Constitution of the United States of America. No, I can call them none of these things. I can't even come up with a good, loud, "Poltroons!" I've done it too many times already and need to find a few more viciously descriptive passages lest I become bored with the whole thing.
No, your knuckles are not alone in the desire to change the condition various chickenhawk physionomies. They are joined by mine own and the steel toes of my motorcycle boots.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 04/16/2009 10:54:06 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 11:22:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
On a similar note:
Rush accuses Obama of not doing anything about the pirates.
| RUSH: (impersonating Obama) "Guys, we're talking housing. I haven't got time to talk about the pirates. Americans, what do you mean? We're talking about housing right now, guys, thanks very much." As the AP says: "Obama's tests are coming early: first from the borderline rogue government in North Korea, then from stateless bandits preying on shipping lanes --" Look, the Somali pirates are Muslims. If this has happened in Afghanistan, what would we be doing? If Americans had been taken hostage in Afghanistan, had been attacked there, what would we be doing? Would Hillary Clinton be out there saying, (impersonating Clinton) "Well, the, ha-ha-ha-ha, world has to come together just like we did with Morocco way back. We were the first one ones to, they were the first ones, ha-ha-ha-ha." What an inept bunch. They don't know what to do here. The crew took it upon themselves, as did the captain, to take matters into their own hands to try to alleviate the situation that they find themselves in, but Mrs. Clinton warned about this, and even the AP is reminding us that she did. |
Cut to a couple of days later after Obama does take action.
| RUSH: You know what we have learned about the Somali pirates, the merchant marine organizers that were wiped out at the order of Barack Obama, you know what we learned about them? They were teenagers. The Somali pirates, the merchant marine organizers who took a US merchant captain hostage for five days were inexperienced youths, the defense secretary, Roberts Gates, said yesterday, adding that the hijackers were between 17 and 19 years old. Now, just imagine the hue and cry had a Republican president ordered the shooting of black teenagers on the high seas. |
The above links come right from Limbaugh's site. Even the dito heads,
if they had brains, well, nevermind...
So, no matter what Obama was going to do, or did, Rush was going to be against it. Basically, Rush's position has nothing to do with right or wrong, good or bad. It only has to do with being anti Obama no matter what he does.
Rush may be the biggest sleaze bag in America. And that's saying something.
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I found this the other day and was going to start a thread with it, but I think it'll fit in this one nicely. Ever wonder why Rush "Boss" Limbaugh's syndicated radio show is all over the place like the proverbial cheap suit?
If you do much driving in rural areas -- e.g. between cities -- "Boss" Limbaugh's bloviations are often the only thing you can pick up on a car radio. Hey, that's what CD players are for.
Did Rush accrue hundreds of local radio affiliates across the country because his political views are mainstream? That's obviously not it. OK, so why IS his show so "popular?" Why do hundreds of stations around the country carry his show, the most widely syndicated talkfest in the country?
Glad you asked.
The real story is not generally well-known. The only reason I know is through my covering the business of radio for years for several major daily newspapers and also, for industry trade magazines like Radio World.
It's because -- ready for this? -- Rush's show was, and presum |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 04/16/2009 11:25:29 |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 14:01:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Not only do Glenn "Chickenhawk" Beck, Newt "Chickenhawk" Gingrich and other personally cowardly GOP tools insult President Obama in this collection of clips, they also defame the US Navy in a time of crisis and in a manner that might have gotten a Democrat lynched. |
What was so bad about what Gingrich said? He didn't defame the Navy. He criticized Obama, but with some grounds. I would not blame Obama for not taking preventative action against Somali pirates, because it was not high on the radar and a president can't prevent everything, but I don't find such a complaint as particularly insulting, no more than ordinary political rhetoric (sitting presidents usually get blamed for things that happen, whether or not it's their fault).
His other complaint was that Obama would not act unilaterally more generally, which does seem to be indicated by Obama's foreign relations ideas, and that does have some strategic disadvantages (not to say there aren't also advantages). There is at least some valid ground for complaint.
Gingrich has always supported low deficits, so his view of the Obama administration as one without discipline probably refers to the increased spending in nearly every facet of the government budget, which is another valid complaint. He also criticized Bush's budgets, so the position is not politicized or inconsistent with the things he has always said.
Not going to comment on Glenn Beck because he does have quite an inviting face. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 16:28:15 [Permalink]
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| Yeah Machi4velli, but Gingrich is still a chickenhawk. He's is one of a long list of prominent Neocons who came up with the idea of attacking Iraq, back in the nineties, before 9/11, who has never served a day in the armed forces. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2009 : 17:50:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
What was so bad about what Gingrich said? He didn't defame the Navy. He criticized Obama, but with some grounds. I would not blame Obama for not taking preventative action against Somali pirates, because it was not high on the radar and a president can't prevent everything, but I don't find such a complaint as particularly insulting, no more than ordinary political rhetoric (sitting presidents usually get blamed for things that happen, whether or not it's their fault).
His other complaint was that Obama would not act unilaterally more generally, which does seem to be indicated by Obama's foreign relations ideas, and that does have some strategic disadvantages (not to say there aren't also advantages). There is at least some valid ground for complaint.
Gingrich has always supported low deficits, so his view of the Obama administration as one without discipline probably refers to the increased spending in nearly every facet of the government budget, which is another valid complaint. He also criticized Bush's budgets, so the position is not politicized or inconsistent with the things he has always said.
Not going to comment on Glenn Beck because he does have quite an inviting face.
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Okay, the way I wrote that could seem as though I included Gingrich as one who defamed the Navy. I'll correct that: That was Glenn Beck's doing.
[I edited the original to correct my erroneous wording.]
I'll stand by my calling Gingrich a "chickenhawk" who criticized his Commander in Chief during a crisis without any substantial overriding cause, very much wrongly as it turned out, and certainly with partisan malice aforethought. Newt wants to be President in 2012, and taking cheap shots has always been how he keeps his mug on the toob. Truth or national interest don't come into it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/16/2009 20:44:47 |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 10:02:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Yeah Machi4velli, but Gingrich is still a chickenhawk. He's is one of a long list of prominent Neocons who came up with the idea of attacking Iraq, back in the nineties, before 9/11, who has never served a day in the armed forces. |
Neither has Obama. Will you also label him a chickenhawk if he uses military force for any purpose? |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 10:16:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Okay, the way I wrote that could seem as though I included Gingrich as one who defamed the Navy. I'll correct that: That was Glenn Beck's doing. |
I think his overall tone is irritating and juvenile, but from the video you quoted, Glenn Beck seemed to be criticizing policies that were restraining the Navy and not the Navy itself. It's unlikely he's claiming that the Navy believes it needs advice from the FBI or a hostage negotiator in order to deal with pirates.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 10:21:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Neither has Obama. Will you also label him a chickenhawk if he uses military force for any purpose?
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Not if he exhausts non-military options first. You do realize chickenhawks are defined by their eagerness to use military force, right?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 10:32:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Originally posted by Kil
Yeah Machi4velli, but Gingrich is still a chickenhawk. He's is one of a long list of prominent Neocons who came up with the idea of attacking Iraq, back in the nineties, before 9/11, who has never served a day in the armed forces. |
Neither has Obama. Will you also label him a chickenhawk if he uses military force for any purpose?
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No. Not if he doesn't engage us in a preemptive war that was suggested as good policy by PNAC , (a group that Gingrich supported that included many of the presidents men) long before 9/11 for the purpose of creating a "friendly democracy" with the imperialistic goal of establishing a Pax Americana. Not if he doesn't embrace the Bush Doctrine and the Neocon solution to the worlds problems. No. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 15:28:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
You do realize chickenhawks are defined by their eagerness to use military force, right? |
The term "chickenhawk" really ought to be reserved for people who are eager to use military force while (importantly) having gone out of their way to avoid serving in the military in their younger years. I suppose it could be extended to those who are eager to use military force while using their power/prestige to protect their children from being involved, also.
For example, Ken Starr was often been called a chickenhawk, but since he got a 4-F rating for his psoriasis, he couldn't have served in Vietnam. More importantly, to get a 4-F meant that he showed up for the physical, so he didn't dodge the draft. I don't think there's anything "chicken" about that.
Did Beck or Gingrich run from military service? If not, then the "chicken" part is just wrong, even if they are hawks. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 16:00:14 [Permalink]
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I think that the juxtaposition of the Limbaugh comments are compelling. And he's not the only one; Hannity was also after-the-fact mocking Obama for somehow benefiting from this whole pirate bit even if, early on, he was mocked for not being "man enough" to do anything about taking out the pirates.
Re Dave's comments, yes: the "chickenhawk" label is for the Cheney or Bush type (but Limbaugh's excuse seems to be legit), and should be reserved for that. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 18:05:58 [Permalink]
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Dave:
Did Beck or Gingrich run from military service? |
Gingrich sought and received deferments to keep himself in grad school. I don't know what kept him out before that. I have no idea about Beck other than he didn't serve. Plus, I don't care about Beck. He could have won a purple heart and he would still be a full blown right wing nutter.
I'm still calling chickenhawk on Gingrich. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2009 : 03:39:33 [Permalink]
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Chickenhawk: n.
One who advocates armed conflict but only when his own (figuritive) posterior has no chance of becoming involved it it. Chickenhawks will go to extraordinary lengths to achieve this status. | Re Dave's comments, yes: the "chickenhawk" label is for the Cheney or Bush type (but Limbaugh's excuse seems to be legit), and should be reserved for that. |
Limbaugh's butt boil -- evidently, no military medical personell checked him out; only his personal physisian.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 10:46:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Chickenhawk: n.
One who advocates armed conflict but only when his own (figuritive) posterior has no chance of becoming involved it it. Chickenhawks will go to extraordinary lengths to achieve this status. | Re Dave's comments, yes: the "chickenhawk" label is for the Cheney or Bush type (but Limbaugh's excuse seems to be legit), and should be reserved for that. |
Limbaugh's butt boil -- evidently, no military medical personell checked him out; only his personal physisian.
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Looks like Rush and I have something on common. I was classified 1-Y based on a doctors letter too, and was never called in for a physical. My allergist, who, not too coincidentally was against the war, wrote a letter for me that was sent in with my registration for the draft. I can't really say she stretched. But I was a few years past the treatments (shots) for allergies that I had received as a child, and my allergies were not bothering me any longer. I knew exactly what I was doing.
I think it's interesting that Rush moved from a student deferment to a medical deferment after being reclassified 1-A. I'm sure his inability to serve must have come as grave disappointment to him.
Unlike Rush, I became a war protester. I joined the SDS. I didn't have to. I was out of jeopardy as far as my having to serve went. I could have just gone surfing.
As for the draft, I don't know anyone who went to Vietnam who didn't want to go. I'm not sure about small towns, but in larger cities, there were several ways to beat the system. It's important to note that our street numbers, those of us against the war, grew throughout the war, at least in part because the draft wasn't all that hard to beat, which meant more people to protest. We were the boomers, the pool was huge, and the military didn't see the need to question our motives. It was cheaper for them to just pass on us. There were plenty of bodies to fill the bags...
The bravest of us simply refused to go, and did jail time. Most of us chose more convenient and far less dramatic ways of avoiding the draft. So my hat is off to those who simply said "no" and willingly suffered the full consequences of their decision. I would like to think that I would have been one of them if the military had taken a harder line toward those of us who were against the war but chose an easier way out. But I will never know.
I do know this. We did advise people in the military to resist. We advised them to stand up and be counted from the inside. We were not unaware of the jeopardy that would put them in from a legal standpoint. Jeopardy that we would not have to face. So I do see some parallels on the Refuses illegal war thread being discussed and what we were doing.
Maybe we were less than honorable and assholes. I dunno. But we were united in a common cause to end a war that we saw as deeply unjust and a horrible waste of life. If we lacked honor, if we were assholes, it's still my view that our cause was just. And to us, that was the bottom line.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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ChickenFOX hopes didn't hold water on piracy
