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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2009 : 19:12:21
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"It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world". President Obama
If Bush said this he would be ridiculed as an idiot. The estimated Muslim population in the US is around 5-6 million:
http://www.islam101.com/history/population2_usa.html
The largest Mulsim country is Indonesia at 182 million. Here is a list of the others.
http://www.aneki.com/muslim.html
Will the chosen one say he mispoke? Or leave it up to his press sec to claim he never said it? This claim is one of many he makes with no validity whatsoever.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 19:45:26 [Permalink]
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Gosh, the same number as Jews pretty much. And this bothers you, why?
If Bush had said it in the spirit that Obama said it, well, I guess it wouldn't have been Bush then, eh? That tard had the whole Muslim world thinking we were at war with them. That's what Obama is trying to fix.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 20:11:11 [Permalink]
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| What are the other countries with high numbers of Muslims in them? Citing the one with the most doesn't necessarily discount that there are a lot in the USA. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 20:16:23 [Permalink]
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Yep. Sean Hannity was making a big deal out of this as well.
One thing I was wondering was the one link provided stopped at number 10. I would like to see a complete list of countries that consider themselves muslim. So how about this list. The numbering is off, but if the population is 6 million that puts us about the population of Lybia and Jordan, 28th or 29th in the list and the list contains 48 countries. So yeah, not one of the largest, but could there have been a larger significance to the point that he was trying to make? Or would you prefer that his statements become awkward in order to remain perfectly accurate?
"It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be a little less than an average sized Muslim country". President Obama
But the door would then be open to criticize him for his awkward statements.
Of course George Bush hardly talked to Muslims. Maybe he did during his last year in office when he started becoming concerned about his legacy.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 20:19:47 [Permalink]
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| Oh I forgot, President Obama never lets the facts get in the way of |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 20:21:06 [Permalink]
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| Oh I forgot, President Obama is never wrong. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 20:23:19 [Permalink]
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This is what right wingers spend their time criticizing?
Bush was made fun of because he said supremely idiotic things, not because he occasionally engaged in slight hyperbole, a tactic used by all politicians. I know conservatives are just dying to play the "your guy is just as bad" game, but when this is all they can dredge up, it makes them look beyond desperate. Robb, I had a desk calendar of "Bushisms" that quoted a stupid thing Bush said for every single day of the year. If Bush had made this statement, I seriously doubt it would even qualify for an entry.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 20:40:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
So how about this list. The numbering is off, but if the population is 6 million that puts us about the population of Lybia and Jordan, 28th or 29th in the list and the list contains 48 countries. |
Those are the total populations of "Muslim Majority" countries, so it's apples-and-oranges. This list gives more details, but it's still only Muslim-majority countries, and it's also ranked by total population.
In a list of all countries by population, if you just counted our six million Muslims, we'd be placed around 105th out of 221, so since we'd be in the top half of the list, we would be "one of the largest." I have little doubt that if someone made a list of all countries ranked by Muslim population, the USA would be even higher up.
But that's splitting hairs. Obama said something dumb. The plain meaning of what he said suggests that we're waaay up near the top of the list, which we're not, neither by absolute numbers nor by percentages.
But when Obama starts saying stupid things in almost every speech, then a comparison with W. will be apt.Originally posted by Robb
This claim is one of many he makes with no validity whatsoever. |
Do tell. Got evidence?
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 22:30:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But that's splitting hairs. Obama said something dumb. The plain meaning of what he said suggests that we're waaay up near the top of the list, which we're not, neither by absolute numbers nor by percentages. |
Well, the plain meaning of what he was saying is that America has a large Muslim population, which is true. If Obama had only said "one of the larger" instead of "one of the largest," this wouldn't even be noteworthy. I still can hardly believe it is now. There are more Muslims living in the U.S. than in, say, Palestine or Jordan, which is pretty shocking when you think about it. I don't think it was a dumb thing to say so much as an overstatement. At best I'd classify it as an unconsidered remark.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/03/2009 22:31:30 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 23:22:04 [Permalink]
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OMG, IMPEACH HIM!!!!!
Oh, wait. He hasn't actually done anything impeachable, that we know of. Maybe he misspoke, used a superlative when he should have stuck with a comparative adjecive, but he hasn't actually lied to the American people, and the world, to start a war or to cover up torture, like Bush.
In other news, I'm delighted by Obama putting pressure on Israel to stop construction of settlements in the West Bank, & work toward a 2-state solution - even though saying "no" to Israel galls other politicians. This is one area where he'd concerned me during the campaign, seeming to indicate that he supported Israel as fully (and, IMO, uncritically) as just about every other US politician.
I do know that Israel is in a dicey position, & doesn't want to appear weak. But is there any reason, other than the Bible (history and future "prophecy"), to confer such a favored status on Israel?
Edited to add: For the most part the Israelis have whiter skin than people in neighboring countries. I suppose that could be part of the explanation.
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| Edited by - Zebra on 06/03/2009 23:23:53 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 00:38:05 [Permalink]
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moakley:
Yep. Sean Hannity was making a big deal out of this as well. |
Next thing you know, Fox news and Rush and the other ultra idiotic conservative fucktards will try to make a big deal out of Obama doing something culturally appropriate in a foreign country, like bowing to a king. Oh wait...they already tried that one.
Their desperation is a joy to behold.
So, when is Hannity going to be waterboarded for charity I wonder? Never? So did he lie or misspeak? I'm going with he lied.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 02:50:11 [Permalink]
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I don't understand what all the shoutin's about. Obama got his tongue caught in his eye teeth and momentarily couldn't see what he was sayin'. Should I care? No. Do I care? Also no. Why do I not care? It was a remark of no consequence; basically a political throw-away, and he blew it. So what? Under like circumstances, I'd ignore it if it came from a Republican, and have been for the best part of the last decade. Mostly, anyway.
Everyone does this; I have, you have, everybody including Jesus has. It's only noteworthy when someone famous does it and at that, only if some yammering media idiot or other wants it to be.
Of much more interest is the outraged squalling about Obama taking his ol' lady out for a night on the town. One lousy night in what, nearly half a year? No one seems to remember that Bush spent a considerable, even outrageous, portion of his presidency vacationing around Prairie Chapel and lowering property values in Crawford. We never heard much more than a squeak about that -- left-wing media my ass!
Ah Hypocrisy, thy name is Talking Head. Shame on you for getting our friend Robb all stirred up!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 05:00:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
moakley:
Yep. Sean Hannity was making a big deal out of this as well. |
Next thing you know, Fox and Rush and the other ultra idiotic conservative fucktards will try to make a big deal out of Obama doing something culturally appropriate in a foreign country, like bowing to a king. Oh wait...they already tried that one.
Their desperation is a joy to watch.
So, when is Hannity going to be waterboarded for charity I wonder? Never? So did he lie or misspeak? I'm going with he lied.
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Erich "Mancow" Muller, a conservative talk radio host from Chicago was water boarded as a "Radio Stunt". He came away from that experience with a vastly different opinion than what he had prior. 6 seconds was all he could endure.
Winds up that he had to defend the truth of his statements that waterboarding is torture to fellow conservative. Fellow conservatives like Sean Hannity. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 12:00:05 [Permalink]
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Anyhow, Robb, while you and your friends are worried about Obama's use of words, I think the reason for that is to deflect away from the real problem in the middle east, which is in large part Bush's doing. While you get your knickers in a bind about how many Muslims there really are in the US, Obama is trying to set us on a course away from a demonstrably disastrous Bush/Cheney policy. But hey, priorities right?
Obama's Cairo mission: Don't be Bush
Five disastrous Middle East policies that the president must show he's rejected.
June 4, 2009 | These are momentous days in the Middle East. As President Barack Obama arrives in Cairo to deliver a long-awaited speech addressing relations between America and the Arab/Muslim world, no fewer than four significant events loom on the regional horizon. On June 7, Lebanon will hold elections that could give the militant group Hezbollah unprecedented political power. Iran will hold its elections five days later, with the political fate of hard-line president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hanging in the balance. U.S. combat forces are scheduled to leave all Iraqi cities by the end of June, the first tangible step toward ending the American military presence there. And Obama has just handed right-wing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a July deadline to form a new peace policy.
Under George W. Bush, America's Arab/Muslim report card was an F-minus. U.S. standing in the Middle East and among the world's Muslims sank to an all-time low, terrorist attacks greatly increased, violent extremists gained power, moderate and pro-U.S. regimes were weakened, the crucial Israeli-Palestinian conflict grew ever more intractable, Iraq sank into a hell from which it has only now begun to emerge, and the Taliban surged back in Afghanistan and threatened Pakistan. Bush's policies were directly responsible for many of these calamitous outcomes, and exacerbated others. In his Cairo speech, Obama's most pressing need is thus to make it unequivocally clear to the world's 1.5 billion Muslims and 325 million Arabs that the U.S. has decisively rejected Bush's failed ideology and policies, and intends to chart a completely new path. We can expect Obama to invoke his own background, reject the idea of a "clash of civilizations" and make an inspiring appeal to shared values. Those oratorical flourishes will count for something, but unless he supports them with tough, realistic language and actual policy changes, they will just go down as pretty words.
What follows is a list of Bush's five cardinal Middle East errors, and what Obama can do in his speech and in his subsequent actions to correct them… |
Read on.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 20:12:37 [Permalink]
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So Obama misoverestimated our rank as a Muslim country. Why are you worried about this? Aren't you worried about the important questions like "Is our children learning?" Is they learning that if you "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, we won't get fooled again"?
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 20:51:40 [Permalink]
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Robb, I cant help but laugh at you and Hannity the manitee.
No one is claiming Obama is perfect or never makes mistakes. That is a strawman of your devising, and quite frankly if you expect to be taken seriously you should clean up your thinking a little before you post such nonsense.
I have plenty of criticism for Obama, I'm not a fan of his continuing in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm not a fan of his refusing to fully disclose the illegal wiretapping of the bush admin (and possibly continuing it), I'm irritated(outraged, actually) with his claim that he can indefinitely detain people we are not officially at war with (we can indefinitely detain enemy soldiers in a declared war, until that war ends), I'm angry that he has refused to release the rest of the Abu Graib prison photos, I'm upset that he hasn't moved faster to put gitmo in mothballs and move those prisoners into the federal prison system (no prisoner has ever escaped from a federal supermax prison) and move the criminals to trial, I'm pissed that he hasn't deported the ones that we can't bring to trial, I'm not sure I'm happy with how moderate his SCOTUS pick is.... the list goes on.
But he isn't a fucking retard like Bush, he isn't a puppet, he has smart people working for him, and he has done a lot of things I'm happy about. In his case the positive so far is way ahead of the negative, and there is some reason to believe he will eventually correct his missteps, because he is a rational person and can be swayed to change his thinking by evidence and sound argument. The same can't be said of the last admin or any of the conservative talking heads on FAUX.
Use your head Robb.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Really?
