|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 08:07:59 [Permalink]
|
Robb, it would have been nice if you had posted the original context of Obama's quote from the start.
The original context was a brief interview with a French reporter: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Transcript-of-the-Interview-of-the-President-by-Laura-Haim-Canal-Plus-6-1-09/ Important to note that it was not a planned speech and also that when Obama said the statement, he had just been discussing terrorism and is clearly trying to say things which will reach out to Muslims who feel oppressed by the West and might be tempted to turn to supporting or engaging in terrorism.
Here's a snippet from the interview with that quote: Q I'm sure they will appreciate that, sir. Thank you so much for them.
Tomorrow we're leaving for the Middle East. It's going to be your first trip there. What do you want to achieve with this trip?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, we're going to be traveling to Saudi Arabia; I'll be having discussions with King Abdullah. And then we'll travel to Cairo, in which I am delivering on a promise I made during the campaign to provide a framework, a speech of how I think we can remake relations between the United States and countries in the Muslim world.
Now, I think it's very important to understand that one speech is not going to solve all the problems in the Middle East. And so I think expectations should be somewhat modest.
What I want to do is to create a better dialogue so that the Muslim world understands more effectively how the United States but also how the West thinks about many of these difficult issues like terrorism, like democracy, to discuss the framework for what's happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and our outreach to Iran, and also how we view the prospects for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
Now, the flip side is I think that the United States and the West generally, we have to educate ourselves more effectively on Islam. And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslims Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. And so there's got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples. |
Robb wrote:
| This claim is one of many he makes with no validity whatsoever. |
This particular claim is obviously not a big deal - what exactly are you worried about it leading to? What do you think was Obama's devious intention with the statement? As Humbert said, if Obama had said "one of the larger" instead of "largest", it wouldn't even be misleading. As someone who lives in Philadelphia in a neighborhood with a huge Muslim population (about a quarter of the people who live in my neighborhood, including my next door neighbors, are Muslims) I took it to mean that Obama is acknowledging the significant Muslim minority here in the USA. And I figure his reasons for doing so are largely political, as in making sure to acknowledge and be respectful of a minority which has been the target of much discrimination, especially since 9-11, and thereby alleviating the very sort of tensions which lead to violence such as terrorism. In other words, he may have said something false, but it seems it was a mistake, a minor mistake, and the spirit of his statement had very good intentions.
Which makes me wonder how big a deal your other examples of Obama's invalid claims are. Could you provide a list of some?
(Edited for clarity and grammar errors.) |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 06/05/2009 08:12:20 |
 |
|
|
perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
 Posted - 06/05/2009 : 08:58:29 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
 |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 10:15:57 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
|
Ah who cares if he is a muslim or an atheist. Now that gas has almost hit $3/gallon around here I want him to honor his promise to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies as he assured us he would.
That is one promise I hope he sticks to. You would think with the oil guys bush and cheany gone we would not be going through this again. Go get them BO, get them windfall profits and make the oil people pay.
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
| Edited by - Bill scott on 06/05/2009 10:17:16 |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 10:23:54 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
|
Ah who cares if he is a muslim or an atheist. Now that gas has almost hit $3/gallon around here I want him to honor his promise to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies as he assured us he would.
That is one promise I hope he sticks to. You would think with the oil guys bush and cheany gone we would not be going through this again. Go get them BO, get them windfall profits and make the oil people pay.
|
The price of gas traditionally goes up during the summer months. And yes, it will lead to a windfall profit as it always does.
This is that rare time that I am actually going to agree with Bill on something. Hell must have frozen over...
 |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 11:14:33 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
|
Ah who cares if he is a muslim or an atheist. Now that gas has almost hit $3/gallon around here I want him to honor his promise to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies as he assured us he would.
That is one promise I hope he sticks to. You would think with the oil guys bush and cheany gone we would not be going through this again. Go get them BO, get them windfall profits and make the oil people pay.
|
The price of gas traditionally goes up during the summer months. And yes, it will lead to a windfall profit as it always does.
This is that rare time that I am actually going to agree with Bill on something. Hell must have frozen over...
|
Hm, yes.... I too feel the chill. Hangin' with Bill on this one.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 12:49:33 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
|
Ah who cares if he is a muslim or an atheist. Now that gas has almost hit $3/gallon around here I want him to honor his promise to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies as he assured us he would.
That is one promise I hope he sticks to. You would think with the oil guys bush and cheany gone we would not be going through this again. Go get them BO, get them windfall profits and make the oil people pay.
|
The price of gas traditionally goes up during the summer months. And yes, it will lead to a windfall profit as it always does.
This is that rare time that I am actually going to agree with Bill on something. Hell must have frozen over...
|
It tradionaly goes up 10, 20, maybe 30 cents in the summer. This new tradition where it doubles in price in 3 weeks just started last year. And trouble is I think he secretly wants $4/gallon or higher. Makes it much easier for him to get everyone in a clown car that plugs in at night. What I want to know is what does this accomplish if the electricity used to charge our cars mostly comes from burning coal? A car that runs strictly on solar power OK I can see the point. But a car that plugs into the wall at night is just getting it's energy from some coal fired power plant somewhere.
There is no gas shortage and this spike, just like last year, is being created by the speculators. Last year it was all Bush's fault being an oil guy and all, while candidate Obama promised to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies. It will be interesting to see how many people and how much of the media remember this promise as gas passes $3/gallon based on nothing but phony speculation. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 13:23:51 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
|
Ah who cares if he is a muslim or an atheist. Now that gas has almost hit $3/gallon around here I want him to honor his promise to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies as he assured us he would.
That is one promise I hope he sticks to. You would think with the oil guys bush and cheany gone we would not be going through this again. Go get them BO, get them windfall profits and make the oil people pay.
|
The price of gas traditionally goes up during the summer months. And yes, it will lead to a windfall profit as it always does.
This is that rare time that I am actually going to agree with Bill on something. Hell must have frozen over...
|
It tradionaly goes up 10, 20, maybe 30 cents in the summer. This new tradition where it doubles in price in 3 weeks just started last year. And trouble is I think he secretly wants $4/gallon or higher. Makes it much easier for him to get everyone in a clown car that plugs in at night. What I want to know is what does this accomplish if the electricity used to charge our cars mostly comes from burning coal? A car that runs strictly on solar power OK I can see the point. But a car that plugs into the wall at night is just getting it's energy from some coal fired power plant somewhere.
There is no gas shortage and this spike, just like last year, is being created by the speculators. Last year it was all Bush's fault being an oil guy and all, while candidate Obama promised to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies. It will be interesting to see how many people and how much of the media remember this promise as gas passes $3/gallon based on nothing but phony speculation.
|
The load on the grid is lower at night than during the day. During the day, as the need for more generation increases, the less efficient, more expensive, and typically more polluting plants are brought on line. At night, instead of reducing the output of the more efficient plants to match the load, increasing the load by charging batteries utilizing the most efficient baseload plants displaces the carbon output from the internal combustion engines. The net effect depends on the relative carbon output per mile driven between the power plants on line at the time (plus transmission and transformer losses) and the carbon output of the internal combustion engines displaced by electric motors. The cleaner the baseload power generation fleet (i.e. the more wind and nuclear), the more the balance tips towards plug-in electric cars. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 14:02:18 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
It tradionaly goes up 10, 20, maybe 30 cents in the summer. |
It's only gone up 30 cents in my area... so far.| And trouble is I think he secretly wants $4/gallon or higher. |
Many conservatives openly want that. So much so that they suggest that Congress pass more gas taxes every time the price drops, to keep the cost at an even $4.00/gallon forever (or at least until it needs to go up more). I agree with 'em.| Makes it much easier for him to get everyone in a clown car that plugs in at night. What I want to know is what does this accomplish if the electricity used to charge our cars mostly comes from burning coal? A car that runs strictly on solar power OK I can see the point. But a car that plugs into the wall at night is just getting it's energy from some coal fired power plant somewhere. |
But a few hundred coal-fired plants are a lot easier to install CO2-sequestering equipment on than a few tens of millions of cars. Plus, what Wreck said. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 14:23:23 [Permalink]
|
1. Last year at this time, as I was driving through the SF Bay area, I saw gas prices of about $5/gallon. We aren't close to that this year.
2. Sure, many areas produce a lot, if not most, of their electricity from coal. But it doesn't have to be that way. On my drive last year I saw huge wind turbine farms and more are being built all the time. The plugin vehicle you buy now, may not receive most of its electricity from coal in a few years. If you buy a regular car now, even a hybrid vehicle that you can't plug in, you will need to visit the pump regularly for the life of the vehicle. Generating electricity from renewable sources won't help you.
And should anything disrupt our supply of imported fuel, good luck to you. There isn't a lot of extra room in the "clown cars" for hitchhikers.
@
|
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 15:23:05 [Permalink]
|
A petrol engine has an efficiency of around 30% while a fossil fuel electrical plant (thanks to large scale technology) has a much higher efficiency (not including the possibility of sequestering CO2 which a car cannot). Besides, right now, increased electricity is produced with fossil carbon sources, but with increased production of "green energy" production facilities like wind farms and solar energy plants, this fossile fuel emission can be reduced.
The Obama government realises that and wants to spend money developing green energy sources... And why not? Green energy is the future!
If America wants to get "Left Behind(tm)" then by all means, be my guest. Such a mindset only reassures Eurpoean and Chineese domination of future Global Economy: America will be a third world country.
Bill, is that the future you want for America?
|
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 23:32:51 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by perrodetokio
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Seriously, what is with this right wing fetish for linking "Obama" and "Muslim" in whatever way possible? What is your problem with Muslims? It's not like they're atheists or something.
|
Haaaaahahahaha!
|
Ah who cares if he is a muslim or an atheist. Now that gas has almost hit $3/gallon around here I want him to honor his promise to go after the windfall profits of the oil companies as he assured us he would.
That is one promise I hope he sticks to. You would think with the oil guys bush and cheany gone we would not be going through this again. Go get them BO, get them windfall profits and make the oil people pay.
|
Going back up to Bill scott's comment for a sec, may I just say: What the - ? You talking about Obama? Do you not find his self-identification as a Christian to be convincing?
|
|
|
|
Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2009 : 23:59:22 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Robb
"It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world". President Obama
If Bush said this he would be ridiculed as an idiot. The estimated Muslim population in the US is around 5-6 million:
http://www.islam101.com/history/population2_usa.html
The largest Mulsim country is Indonesia at 182 million. Here is a list of the others.
http://www.aneki.com/muslim.html
Will the chosen one say he mispoke? Or leave it up to his press sec to claim he never said it? This claim is one of many he makes with no validity whatsoever.
|
Going allll the way back up to the OP, I have been sorely tempted to pose a couple of questionable quotes back to Robb, and am hereby giving in to that temptation.
Matthew 5:22
…anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Luke 11:40
You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? |
Will the chosen one say he mispoke?
Matthew 17:20
I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.
John 14:14
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. |
Or leave it up to his press sec to claim he never said it?
Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God. |
This claim is one of many he makes with no validity whatsoever.
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Really?
