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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2009 : 17:53:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
I would agree with Zinn, if only on the fact that Obama has so far continued the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. |
I think if Obama, on January 21st, had blown his whistle and shouted "everyone outta the pool," the result would have been orders of magnitude more death and destruction than has happened since then (and probably will happen with troops in both countries for some years to come). One thing that I think it's far too early to tell is whether he is continuing Bush's policies regarding those wars, or slowly and methodically cleaning up Bush's messes. Without hypothesizing a shadowy conspiracy, it seems a stretch to think that empire building in Iraq and Afghanistan specifically have a big upside for Obama in particular or the Democrats in general. They've got about six more months to do something big before the Republican campaign machine is going to be crowing about the huge promises of 2008 being nothing but lies, and Obama finds himself effectively stripped of veto power over anything Congress passes. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 21:15:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Terrorism. And they rewarded Mother Teresa for her scam. |
Are you so warped you actually believe the Nobel Comittee was in on the scam and awarded her for it?
Or maybe the people in the comittee are fallible just like any other human, and made a mistake?
They just allowed him his excuses for not delivering what little he promised, and he hasn't promised much. What does negotiation with Iran mean when the U.S. and Israel's position is bullying and lies? What does peace mean when war for no good reason is excused?
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I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Nothing I say will make a difference, but you are an American citizen, right? Write to your senators and congressmen... You have more influence than I.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 22:23:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Gorgo
Terrorism. And they rewarded Mother Teresa for her scam. |
Are you so warped you actually believe the Nobel Comittee was in on the scam and awarded her for it?
Or maybe the people in the comittee are fallible just like any other human, and made a mistake? |
Since her Prize was awarded in 1979, a quick perusal of the Intertubes suggests that there may not have been a lot of public evidence that it was a scam at the time. From what I can gather, it wasn't until a couple years later that Teresa began to make it clear, publicly, that her goal wasn't to help eradicate poverty (as the Nobel Committee clearly thought), but to take advantage of poverty for her own ends (primarily making more Catholics, according to Hitchens). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 01:55:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Are you so warped you actually believe the Nobel Comittee was in on the scam and awarded her for it?
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What? Do you think all the people that believe she's a saint are "in on" the scam? She probably didn't even completely understand that it was a scam.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Nothing I say will make a difference, but you are an American citizen, right? Write to your senators and congressmen... You have more influence than I.
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They don't work for me, either, but I do so in the hope that it makes a little difference.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/12/2009 01:57:03 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 02:00:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Gorgo
Why do you think the reasons that you think the prize was awarded is at all relevant? |
My perception of reality is relevant to this discussion, because I am participant in it.
But what you seem to be really telling me is that Street, Cockburn and Zinn have inside intelligence that the Nobel Committee awards Peace Prizes in order to continue Western imperialism, in spite of what they plainly say their standards and reasons are? Wait, of course they do, simply by dint of the Committee failing to be as far left as they are.
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You're the one tying these three authors to saying that the Nobel Committee awards prizes in order to continue western imperialism, not me.
You are the one using the word 'conspiracy' and not me. You read things that aren't there. You believe Obama's primary purpose is peace, are you part of the conspiracy? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 06:51:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
You're the one tying these three authors to saying that the Nobel Committee awards prizes in order to continue western imperialism, not me. |
What the...? No, they and you seem to be saying that that's what the Peace Prize is for. In this post, for starters, you conclude that "the committee's purpose must be to encourage war..."| You are the one using the word 'conspiracy' and not me. |
You brought the word into this discussion. I neither used the term nor implied any conspiracy exists. Why are you reversing reality, Gorgo?| You read things that aren't there. |
Like what?| You believe Obama's primary purpose is peace... |
WTF? Talk about reading things that aren't there! "Primary purpose?!" Massive reading comprehension failure on your part, Gorgo.| ...are you part of the conspiracy? |
WHAT conspiracy?! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 07:07:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
What the...? No, they and you seem to be saying that that's what the Peace Prize is for. In this post, for starters, you conclude that "the committee's purpose must be to encourage war..." |
Right. That's not me saying that the authors said anything about Western Imperialism and the Nobel Committee. I don't know the reason they are encouraging war, nor do I assume their intent beyond that. They evidently believe that war is peace. What other conclusion is there? You believe war is the way to peace, do you not? That may even be a correct assumption in some cases for all i know. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 07:12:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
"Primary purpose?!" Massive reading comprehension failure on your part, Gorgo
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Then what is your point, Dave? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 07:18:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
You brought the word into this discussion. I neither used the term nor implied any conspiracy exists. Why are you reversing reality, [b] |
You're right, my error. I brought in the word conspiracy to talk about the conspiracy that you dreamed up about Linus Pauling. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/12/2009 07:19:40 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 07:20:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Right. That's not me saying that the authors said anything about Western Imperialism and the Nobel Committee. |
Yes, the authors make their own cases regarding Western imperialism and the Prize. I'm certainly not saying that you and they colluded together, but that you all seem to have arrived at the same conclusion.| I don't know the reason they are encouraging war, nor do I assume their intent beyond that. |
And from what they've said, they're not encouraging war, so I don't know where you're getting even that.| They evidently believe that war is peace. |
Good grief, I've been asking for evidence to test such a hypothesis, and you say "evidently?" No. Just plain no.| What other conclusion is there? |
Based on the fact that the Prize standards don't include war, and that this particular Prize wasn't awarded because Obama is waging war (or stopping war), and that historically, the Prize hasn't generally been awarded to people who have stopped wars, that states of war are largely irrelevant to the intent of the Nobel Peace Prize.| You believe war is the way to peace, do you not? |
Of course not. How did you reach such a ridiculous conclusion? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 07:25:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Originally posted by Dave W.
"Primary purpose?!" Massive reading comprehension failure on your part, Gorgo |
Then what is your point, Dave? |
It's been completely lost in your confusion, Gorgo. You've apparently been reading so much stuff into my posts (like that war is the way to peace, or that Obama's "primary purpose" is peace, or that there's some conspiracy afoot about Linus Pauling) that I'm pretty sure that I cannot help you understand. Especially if you need it distilled into a couple of sentences, as you asked before. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 08:26:33 [Permalink]
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Gorgo, you stop taking your meds again? Because you are about as coherent as verlch. Just take the damn pills man!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 08:51:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Gorgo
Originally posted by Dave W.
"Primary purpose?!" Massive reading comprehension failure on your part, Gorgo |
Then what is your point, Dave? |
It's been completely lost in your confusion, Gorgo. You've apparently been reading so much stuff into my posts (like that war is the way to peace, or that Obama's "primary purpose" is peace, or that there's some conspiracy afoot about Linus Pauling) that I'm pretty sure that I cannot help you understand. Especially if you need it distilled into a couple of sentences, as you asked before.
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I'm pretty sure it was you that talked about Pauling, I think I could go back and copy the quote if you want. Does "scheme" mean something other than conspiracy here, I really am trying to understand? If you give a criminal money for pledging to keep the number of guns on his body down to 3,000, are you subsidizing the criminal or not? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 10:13:04 [Permalink]
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Wow.
I don't think I've seen Gorgo go off like this.
It's like he's reading different words in Dave's posts than I am.
I do not think the way to peace is paved through war......but I'm also not a pacifist.
I would agree that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective......but not always.
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 10:37:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Wow.
I don't think I've seen Gorgo go off like this.
It's like he's reading different words in Dave's posts than I am.
I do not think the way to peace is paved through war......but I'm also not a pacifist.
I would agree that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective......but not always.
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Go off? Nonviolent action? What thread are you in? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Nobel Prize and Obama
