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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2009 : 06:49:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
It's the "voice of the people", not government. |
Well, that's still government, in that in a democracy the people are the government.
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A poor choice of words then. I should have said It's the "voice of the people", not parliament.
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It is also Islamophobic bigotry.
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Hi Jayhawker and welcome to SFN!
Well, Parliament is supposed to be the voice of the people but seldom is, Democracy being what it is...
Islamophobia will continue to expand. If what I've read is correct, Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world, and the Christians just can't stand it.
A pox on both their houses!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2009 : 07:48:15 [Permalink]
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On an only distantly related matter:
Monday, November 30, 2009
Holiday Terrorism
Pastor J. Grant Swank
Columnist Portland Press Herald
Dear Pastor Swank,
On the day after Thanksgiving, we celebrated one of the most holy American holidays, Black Friday. It's supposed to be a day when we celebrate the beginning of the season of our Savior's birth by engaging in the most sacred sacrament of capitalism, the big box store sale riot.
But this year, the spirit of this holy day was horribly violated by the intrusion of Eid, a Muslim festival that celebrates the end of the Haj with the slaughtering of livestock to provide meat to the poor. Yes, you read that right. Not only is it a Muslim holiday, it's a socialist one as well--believers are expected to feed the impoverished.
Worse yet, they slaughter the animals with their own hands while praising God. They don't have the decency to hire a butcher to do it for them like real Americans, somewhere out of sight
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What seems to have brought this on is this E from Pastor Skank Swank:
And then there's this email you published:
I thought I would let everyone know that I took a deer into Archers Meats in Fishers, Indiana on Friday after Thanksgiving. It is the same place I have taken deer for 20 years.
They told me they couldn’t take my deer today because it was a Muslim holiday and the Muslims were in the BACK SACRIFICING GOATS TO ALLAH.
I repeated back to her slowly and in a shocked tone what she had just said to me.
Then I told her: ‘Shame on you for putting your customers on the back burner and the American Hunter to the side while the people we are at WAR with practice their religion in the back of your building...'
If I wouldn’t have gone to jail I would have gone back to spit on the floor in front of the Muslims and draw my weapon.
This is America. Let’s keep it. |
Where, one wonders, would Jesus cut up his venison? After he'd helped the Muslims butcher their goats, would he have donated it?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Jayhawker Soule
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 18:32:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
It's the "voice of the people", not government. |
Well, that's still government, in that in a democracy the people are the government.
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A poor choice of words then. I should have said It's the "voice of the people", not parliament.
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It is also Islamophobic bigotry.
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Hi Jayhawker and welcome to SFN!
Well, Parliament is supposed to be the voice of the people but seldom is, Democracy being what it is...
Islamophobia will continue to expand. If what I've read is correct, Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world, and the Christians just can't stand it. |
This impresses me as a rather sad example of rude distortion driven by anti-religious bigotry. I'm unclear why you believe your intolerance is morally superior to that shown in Switzerland.
Parenthetically, the idea that "Parliament is supposed to be the voice of the people" is an interesting one.
Thank you for the welcome. |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 19:18:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
It's the "voice of the people", not government. |
Well, that's still government, in that in a democracy the people are the government.
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A poor choice of words then. I should have said It's the "voice of the people", not parliament.
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It is also Islamophobic bigotry.
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Hi Jayhawker and welcome to SFN!
Well, Parliament is supposed to be the voice of the people but seldom is, Democracy being what it is...
Islamophobia will continue to expand. If what I've read is correct, Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world, and the Christians just can't stand it. |
This impresses me as a rather sad example of rude distortion driven by anti-religious bigotry. I'm unclear why you believe your intolerance is morally superior to that shown in Switzerland.
Parenthetically, the idea that "Parliament is supposed to be the voice of the people" is an interesting one.
Thank you for the welcome.
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Yes, welcome, Jayhawker Soule.
Could you clarify what you mean by "This" and "you" above? (in "This impresses me as....") The quote layers are getting pretty thick. Do you mean "Islam is the fastest growing faith in the world" or "Christians just can't stand it" or something else or the whole conversation? Do you mean a particular "you" (singular) or the entire conversation (you plural) or...?
Two people would have to agree on what's "moral" or what's "more moral" vs. "less moral", in order to have a meaningful conversation about whether one position is "morally superior". Has such agreement been reached?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 19:55:15 [Permalink]
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Jayhawker:
This impresses me as a rather sad example of rude distortion driven by anti-religious bigotry. I'm unclear why you believe your intolerance is morally superior to that shown in Switzerland.
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Of course it is not and I never thought that it was. I have never claimed moral superiority over anyone and am darkly suspicious of those that do. Old southern saying:
"As soon as somebody starts tellin' you how moral and upright he is, you can bet the farm that he ain't."
Believe it!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 22:33:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
I'm unclear why you believe your intolerance is morally superior to that shown in Switzerland. |
I'm unclear as how you can equate saying something unfavorable about a group with actively prohibiting a group from expressing themselves.
The Swiss aren't being intolerant, they're being draconian. I agree with Machi4velli's assessment that this may be the tyranny of the majority shining through.
Besides, saying something along the lines of "Christians suck" without also calling for the outlawing of church steeples is a hell of a lot more tolerant than what the Swiss did. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Jayhawker Soule
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 05:42:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
I'm unclear why you believe your intolerance is morally superior to that shown in Switzerland. |
I'm unclear as how you can equate saying something unfavorable about a group with actively prohibiting a group from expressing themselves. |
I did not do so. The minaret ban is both an Islamophobic act and the reflection of a bigoted attitude. I was comparing the quality of two attitudes. You're the one comparing attitude with action. The confusion is neither warranted nor helpful. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 05:45:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
On an only distantly related matter:
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Not having time right now I'll just have to throw this out and accept the consequences. This is a parody site. Right?
If he went back there and gutted those Muslims with a Bowie knife, HE'D be the one going to jail! That's life in Obama's America for you! Can't just attack non-Christians at ALL! Cripes, what a dictatorship we live in.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Jayhawker Soule
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 05:45:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Jayhawker:
This impresses me as a rather sad example of rude distortion driven by anti-religious bigotry. I'm unclear why you believe your intolerance is morally superior to that shown in Switzerland.
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Of course it is not and I never thought that it was. |
Then we agree. Thank you for making that clear. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 05:49:01 [Permalink]
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And that ain't all:
Swiss party leader calls for ban on Jewish, Muslim cemeteries
By Daniel Tencer
Thursday, December 3rd, 2009 -- 6:51 pm
Move is an 'escalation' of conflict between Switzerland, Muslim minority: report
Just a few days after Swiss voters approved of a ban on minarets in their country, the leader of a major Swiss political party is defending his call to ban separate Jewish and Muslim cemeteries.
According to Jewish news service JTA, Christophe Darbellay, head of the country's Christian Democratic Party, made the comment during a TV interview on Tuesday evening.
"It doesn't bother me to be buried next to a person of another religion," Darbellay told the Swiss daily Le Matin on Thursday. "But I don't imagine that in this country, every religion or sect can have a separate cemetery in every town. It wouldn't be manageable to make these exceptions. ... Principle requires that one does not distinguish on the basis of origin or religion."
JTA reports: "Darbellay reportedly said that existing cemeteries would not be affected by a ban, but that there should be no separate cemeteries in the future." The paper added that critics describe the Christian Democrat leader's move as an "escalation" of the political conflict between the Swiss and their Muslim minority.
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Well, Switzerland is not a large country so I'd expect that real estate might be at something of a premium. However, the Tibetans have an excellent solution....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 12/04/2009 06:54:34 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 06:51:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
I did not do so. The minaret ban is both an Islamophobic act and the reflection of a bigoted attitude. I was comparing the quality of two attitudes. You're the one comparing attitude with action. The confusion is neither warranted nor helpful. |
How one acts is demonstrative of one's attitude. Separating the two is unrealistic. Those who are willing to act upon an idea (even if the action is nothing more than casting a vote) have a different attitude than those who are only willing to talk about it.
Besides, allowing people to do as they please even as one voices a poor assessment of them is tolerance. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Jayhawker Soule
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 16:56:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Jayhawker Soule
I did not do so. The minaret ban is both an Islamophobic act and the reflection of a bigoted attitude. I was comparing the quality of two attitudes. You're the one comparing attitude with action. The confusion is neither warranted nor helpful. |
How one acts is demonstrative of one's attitude. |
I do not believe I suggested otherwise. Meanwhile your friend acknowledges that his intolerant attitude is in no way morally superior to that demonstrated in Switzerland. You seem insistent upon defending your friend, and we would both agree that this is demonstrative of your attitude. And, finally, I think we all believe that the ban itself is reprehensible. So we've apparently achieved something approaching a meeting of the minds.
Shabbat shalom. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2009 : 05:39:08 [Permalink]
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I can take care of myself, Jayhawker, but thanks for the concern. Dave is not and has never defended me, nor I him.
Jon Stewart joins the fray.
Well, thus far we seem to have heard something from everyone but the Muslims. And our own right-wing Christians seem pretty much silent on the matter although admittedly, I might have missed something and probably have.
I would think that the Christians, especially Catholics, being heavily invested in icons themselves, would rise in defense of their Islamic cousins but it doesn't seem to be happening. At this point, I rather doubt that it will. Be nice if it did though; reaffirmation of Christian charity, and all that.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2009 : 08:22:49 [Permalink]
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Just for the hell of it.....
There seems to be quite a large percentage of folks in this country, including myself, who don't really know all that much about Islam. So, I thought I'd post a brief description:
Islam is the second largest religion in the world after Christianity, and it's gaining fast.
There are between 1 and 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Despite the impression you may have gotten, the vast majority of Muslims are non-Arabs. Islam is the dominant religion across much of Asia, North Africa and the Middle East.
Islam means "submission", specifically total submission to the word of God as recorded in the Koran (or Quran) by the Prophet Muhammad, a message delivered in 7th century and believed to be God's final revelation to humankind.
Muslims believe the Koran is God's word exactly as told to Muhammad, without elaboration or creative input from the Prophet himself. After the Koran, there are secondary texts known as hadiths, which are stories of the Prophet's life and times.
Although most Muslims emulate Muhammad's way of life (sunna) as outlined in the hadiths, these texts are not considered as unreproachable as the Koran, and different Islamic sects sometimes endorse different or incompatible hadiths.
There are five key criteria for being Muslim, known as the "five pillars of Islam", which include:
Belief in the creed: "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is his prophet".
Performing specific daily prayers.
Donating a portion of your income to the needy.
Fasting as part of the observance of Ramadan.
Making a pilgrimage to Mecca, known as the Haj.
In addition to the pillars, there are numerous injunctions about behavior and custom laid out in the Koran and elaborated on by the hadiths and in religious rulings known as fatwas. Muslims are forbidden to eat pork, and other meats must be ritually prepared in order to be considered halal.
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It's an enlightening read. Islam is no less complicated than the other two Abrahamic faiths.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2009 : 08:31:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by filthy
On an only distantly related matter:
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Not having time right now I'll just have to throw this out and accept the consequences. This is a parody site. Right?
If he went back there and gutted those Muslims with a Bowie knife, HE'D be the one going to jail! That's life in Obama's America for you! Can't just attack non-Christians at ALL! Cripes, what a dictatorship we live in.
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Nope, Pastor Swank is for real. Here's a google page on the asshole. Small wonder that fundie Christianity is in such ill repute. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Swiss Ban Building of Minarets
