|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 07/19/2010 : 12:53:08 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Fripp
I heard something on the radio that said that the whole NAACP dustup has been misinterpreted. |
If we're talking about FOX "news", you're being too kind.
I think 'misrepresented' was the word you were looking for. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
 |
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 04:56:02 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Fripp
I heard something on the radio that said that the whole NAACP dustup has been misinterpreted. |
If we're talking about FOX "news", you're being too kind.
I think 'misrepresented' was the word you were looking for.
|
What about the misrepresentation of the tea party movement on this forum? I mean here we have seen cherry picked examples of a few singled out people and this is used as a springboard for the forum to bash and label the entire movement that numbers in the millions as racist. The president and vice-president have both been on record as not believing that the tea part movement is a racist group. So time has shown that the many myths and urban legends that this forum likes to dabble in just ain't true. The myth was proliferated that the tea party movement either supports or ignores bad behavior by independent tea party groups when just in the last few weeks alone we have seen two tea party affiliations rebuked and expelled by the tea party movement itself for bad behavior. The myth that no blacks are welcome by the tea party movement was dispelled this week as we saw David Webb, spokesman for the tea party federation, and African-American, announce the expulsion of the tea party express from the federation.
So after bashing the tea party movement over self-created generalizations that panned out to be untrue, stories such as this one below are ignored where the NAACP applauds an FDA employee who shares a story of rejecting government assistance for a farmer who was going bankrupt simply because he was white. It's almost as if you guys just don't like white conservatives and are willing to impose self-created generalizations and misrepresentations in effort to discredit those with whom you disagree or dislike.
And of coarse if I used the play book that was used to kickoff this thread I would point to this single episode of obvious racism from an NAACP meeting and then label the entire movement nationwide as nothing but a bunch of bitter racists. Nice.
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/20/the-naacp-becoming-mel-gibson/3 |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2010 : 06:12:03 [Permalink]
|
Link
Tea Party movement condones racism
If the Tea Party movement wanted to shake its image as the angriest bastion for the lunatic right -- with heavy emphasis on the lunatic part -- last weekend’s first-ever national convention in Nashville did not help.
Even more than Sarah Palin’s appearance, what continues to resonate with the general public post-convention is Tom Tancredo’s racist attacks and his endorsement of a civics and literacy test for voters. That the former congressman from Colorado is an anti-immigrant blowhard should not surprise anyone who caught his ugly, voter-rejected act during the Republican presidential primaries two years ago. But that Tea Party leaders chose not to condemn his speech in Nashville suggests their ideologies are closely attuned – much to their shame.
Tea partiers should have at least flinched when Mr. Tancredo started out by attacking President Barack Obama by invoking his middle name of Hussein – that shopworn technique of not-so-subtly suggesting some nefarious Iraqi connection. Or perhaps when he blustered that “people who could not even spell the word or say it in English put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House.”
But when the Republican suggested that Mr. Obama won because the nation lacks a civics and literacy test for voters, the crowd should have been stunned and alarmed. Surely, anyone familiar with this country’s civil rights history should have been. For decades, such tests had one purpose: to prevent blacks from voting.
And to make reference to them in the context of the country’s first African-American president? That’s not some slip of the tongue or a moment of political incorrectness. That’s the stuff of Klan rallies.
|
Bill, if it were me, I'd begin to rethink my political affiliations. Yeah, I know; you're not a teabagger, but these clowns represent a part of the Republican base -- how large a part depends upon who you read.
Actually, I loath most white conservatives and have since Nixon. Not too fond of a lot of white liberals, either, comes to that.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
| Edited by - filthy on 07/20/2010 06:21:07 |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 06:55:37 [Permalink]
|
| Originally posted by filthy |
| Bill, if it were me, I'd begin to rethink my political affiliations. |
What political affiliations? And with whom do you think I should now be affiliated with? Now keep in mind that I consider myself an independent who leans conservative on most but not all issues. And again, if you want to continue to keep dragging out your one trick pony where you point out select individualizes and a sign and then paint the whole tea party movement nationwide with your broad racist brush go ahead. But the president and vice-president have put down that tired old worn out dog for good.
| Yeah, I know; you're not a teabagger, |
And so what's your beef with the tea party movement now that the racism myth has been debunked?
| but these clowns represent a part of the Republican base -- |
Na. Many of them despise a lot of the republicans as well. A better description would be that many from the conservative base find that they agree with much of what the tea party movement is based on, which if you read the wiki article on the movement is bloated and wasteful government spending. The republicans have done their fair share of defect spending over the last 10 years.
| how large a part depends upon who you read. |
Agreed.
| Actually, I loath most white conservatives and have since Nixon. |
What about black conservatives? What about Asian, Indian or Latino conservatives?
| Not too fond of a lot of white liberals, either, comes to that. |
What about black liberals? What about Asian, Indian or Latino liberals?
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 07:15:10 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by filthy
Link
Tea Party movement condones racism
If the Tea Party movement wanted to shake its image as the angriest bastion for the lunatic right -- with heavy emphasis on the lunatic part -- last weekend’s first-ever national convention in Nashville did not help.
Even more than Sarah Palin’s appearance, what continues to resonate with the general public post-convention is Tom Tancredo’s racist attacks and his endorsement of a civics and literacy test for voters. That the former congressman from Colorado is an anti-immigrant blowhard should not surprise anyone who caught his ugly, voter-rejected act during the Republican presidential primaries two years ago. But that Tea Party leaders chose not to condemn his speech in Nashville suggests their ideologies are closely attuned – much to their shame.
Tea partiers should have at least flinched when Mr. Tancredo started out by attacking President Barack Obama by invoking his middle name of Hussein – that shopworn technique of not-so-subtly suggesting some nefarious Iraqi connection. Or perhaps when he blustered that “people who could not even spell the word or say it in English put a committed socialist ideologue in the White House.”
But when the Republican suggested that Mr. Obama won because the nation lacks a civics and literacy test for voters, the crowd should have been stunned and alarmed. Surely, anyone familiar with this country’s civil rights history should have been. For decades, such tests had one purpose: to prevent blacks from voting.
And to make reference to them in the context of the country’s first African-American president? That’s not some slip of the tongue or a moment of political incorrectness. That’s the stuff of Klan rallies.
|
Bill, if it were me, I'd begin to rethink my political affiliations. Yeah, I know; you're not a teabagger, but these clowns represent a part of the Republican base -- how large a part depends upon who you read.
Actually, I loath most white conservatives and have since Nixon. Not too fond of a lot of white liberals, either, comes to that.
|
Well you have had plenty of fun cherry picking a few people out of millions and then ranting on the whole tea party movement over it so I would interested in your two cents on the NAACP folks applauding the lady who refused government assistance to a farmer going bankrupt simply because was white. Do they get your free pass since they are not white conservatives or white liberals? It's almost like you are the one who is racist my friend. Racist against white folks. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
| Edited by - Bill scott on 07/20/2010 07:47:20 |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 07:58:42 [Permalink]
|
The fact is that I don't like anybody very much, and you are in no position to accuse anyone of cherry-picking.
The only link I could find for the white farmer was Andrew Brietbart's less than-reliable, BigGovernment blog. And the official got fired for it, and rightly, so what's the big deal?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
ooh_child
New Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 09:40:42 [Permalink]
|
There's more to come from the Sherrod story:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/07/everyone_take_a_deep_breath.php?ref=fpblg
"She tells the paper that the incident she was recounting happened 24 years ago, before she worked for the USDA, that she went on to provide considerable assistance to the farmer, that she eventually became friends with the farmer and his wife, and that the whole point of retelling the story was to show how she had managed to move beyond race herself."
I agree with the writer at TPM: "I'm going to wait to pass judgment until I see the entire video. Maybe a lot of other people should have, too." |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 09:42:08 [Permalink]
|
| Originally posted by filthy |
| The fact is that I don't like anybody very much, |
Then why didn't you just say that instead of saying that you don't like white conservatives, or white liberals?
| and you are in no position to accuse anyone of cherry-picking. |
I am in a position to accuse you and I have backed up those accusations.
| The only link I could find for the white farmer was Andrew Brietbart's less than-reliable, BigGovernment blog. |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38321920/from/RSS/38323245
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/20/shirley-sherrod-resigns-usda-naacp_n_652185.html
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/video-naacp-white-farmer-refused-help-fox/2010/07/19/id/365097
| And the official got fired for it, and rightly, so what's the big deal? |
The big deal is that it would be a sweeping generalization if I took this story and then used it to label all NAACP members nationwide as racist because of it. But yet that is what you have done to the tea party movement with your few cherry picked examples. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 09:55:15 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by ooh_child
There's more to come from the Sherrod story:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/07/everyone_take_a_deep_breath.php?ref=fpblg
"She tells the paper that the incident she was recounting happened 24 years ago, before she worked for the USDA, that she went on to provide considerable assistance to the farmer, that she eventually became friends with the farmer and his wife, and that the whole point of retelling the story was to show how she had managed to move beyond race herself."
I agree with the writer at TPM: "I'm going to wait to pass judgment until I see the entire video. Maybe a lot of other people should have, too."
|
Again, in the context of this thread it is irrelevant. I could point to Jeremiah Wright speaking before the NAACP just as easy. My point was/is that cherry picking out individuals and then using that example to accuse a group of people who number in the millions based off a few cherry picked examples demonstrates nothing, other then obvious bias by the accuser. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 10:04:35 [Permalink]
|
| Originally posted by ooh_child |
| I agree with the writer at TPM: "I'm going to wait to pass judgment until I see the entire video. Maybe a lot of other people should have, too." |
And it would have been nice had the accusers of racism towards the tea party movement followed your advice. Had they done so they could have figured out that the Northern Iowa Tea Party was rebuked and the tea party expresse was expelled with the announcement coming from the tea party federations black spokesman. Instead they decided to let their emotions rule and ended up having to eat crow because of it. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 11:19:13 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
My point was/is that cherry picking out individuals and then using that example to accuse a group of people who number in the millions based off a few cherry picked examples demonstrates nothing, other then obvious bias by the accuser.
|
LOL! Just like all the ACORN bashing you did, right Billy boy?
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/20/2010 11:20:01 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 11:42:06 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
The myth was proliferated that the tea party movement either supports or ignores bad behavior by independent tea party groups when just in the last few weeks alone we have seen two tea party affiliations rebuked and expelled by the tea party movement itself for bad behavior. |
The myth wasn't a myth until four days ago. I'm all for dispelling myths, but the bad actors weren't rejected until after the posts here were written wondering why they weren't ejecting the bad actors. Saying that we were "proliferating a myth" is to say that we should have been able to see the future.| The myth that no blacks are welcome by the tea party movement... |
Did someone say that?| So after bashing the tea party movement over self-created generalizations that panned out to be untrue... |
There was no evidence that they were false at that time.| ...stories such as this one below are ignored where the NAACP applauds an FDA employee who shares a story of rejecting government assistance for a farmer who was going bankrupt simply because he was white. It's almost as if you guys just don't like white conservatives and are willing to impose self-created generalizations and misrepresentations in effort to discredit those with whom you disagree or dislike. |
You're free to bring up stories like this. I hadn't heard it. The NAACP is messed up, and clearly racist.
Or do you want to defend them, too? Am I unfairly smearing them over the actions of a few people?| And of coarse if I used the play book that was used to kickoff this thread I would point to this single episode of obvious racism from an NAACP meeting and then label the entire movement nationwide as nothing but a bunch of bitter racists. Nice. |
Read the rest of the article. It's not just a "single episode," Bill. As with the Tea Party, it appears to be institutional. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2010 : 12:06:22 [Permalink]
|
I can't help to notice that the format is fucked again. When are you idiots going to learn to hyper-link?
See ya next page, for a while, anyway..... 
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
ooh_child
New Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 12:31:23 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by ooh_child
There's more to come from the Sherrod story:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/07/everyone_take_a_deep_breath.php?ref=fpblg
"She tells the paper that the incident she was recounting happened 24 years ago, before she worked for the USDA, that she went on to provide considerable assistance to the farmer, that she eventually became friends with the farmer and his wife, and that the whole point of retelling the story was to show how she had managed to move beyond race herself."
I agree with the writer at TPM: "I'm going to wait to pass judgment until I see the entire video. Maybe a lot of other people should have, too."
|
Again, in the context of this thread it is irrelevant. I could point to Jeremiah Wright speaking before the NAACP just as easy. My point was/is that cherry picking out individuals and then using that example to accuse a group of people who number in the millions based off a few cherry picked examples demonstrates nothing, other then obvious bias by the accuser.
|
But twice now in this thread you have tried to use examples to bolster your point that've been first popularized by Breitbart & Co. Examples that have been largely debunked once examined in the light of day. I guess my question for you is: When are you going to stop using stories pushed by this hack? |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 12:42:37 [Permalink]
|
| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| The myth wasn't a myth until four days ago. I'm all for dispelling myths, but the bad actors weren't rejected until after the posts here were written wondering why they weren't ejecting the bad actors. Saying that we were "proliferating a myth" is to say that we should have been able to see the future. |
I see your point. Maybe myth was not the best choice of words here. I probably should have stuck with sweeping generalizations. Labeling a group who's numbers range in the millions with a sweeping generalization based on a few individuals and a sign may be one's prerogative but, that generalization may come back to be totally unfounded, such as in the tea party movement case here.
You're free to bring up stories like this. I hadn't heard it. The NAACP is messed up, and clearly racist.
Or do you want to defend them, too? Am I unfairly smearing them over the actions of a few people? |
Maybe. If I let only my emotions answer that question then I would probably say they are clearly a racist group. If I strip my emotion away then I would probably be reluctant to label the NAACP, as a whole, a racist group. In a group of that size and scope there are probably folks from all over the board being represented. Some who hate white people to no end all the way to those who are there for positive reasons who really want to dialect with other races and work out our differences. Within the tea party movement it would be no different. You have a wide range of folks being represented all the way from the guy who hates black people to no end all the way to those who are there to protest out of control government spending and nothing more. This has been my point, that with a group who's numbers are those the size of the tea party movement or the NAACP it would be awful hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all label for either group as a whole without it turning into a sweeping generalization. And in a nutshell that was the problem I had with this thread. The poster was trying to paint the entire tea party movement with his racist brush while I was pointing out that his broad brush really can only be applied to elements within the tea party express mainly Miller. Certainly this alone does not justify generalizing the whole movement. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
NAACP: Klan with a tan.
