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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:44:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
| The Smithsonian is a science museum who at times promotes philosophy. |
I am unfamiliar with a time that the Smithsonian was promoting a specific philosophy. Please enlighten me.
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For starters they promote the philosophy of monkeys to man evolution.
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You are shittin' me right?
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:55:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Originally posted by Bill scott
For starters they promote the philosophy of monkeys to man evolution.
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You are shittin' me right?
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No, Bill really lives 200 years in the past. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:11:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Hawks
Originally posted by Bill scott
essentially all scholars in the relevant fields agree that the existence of Jesus as a historical figure can be established using documentary and other evidence.[/b]
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A professor of divinity most likely would say that.
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I would agree. But so did wikipedia and many secular scholars. Because the evidence is so overwhelming.
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My point was that the source of the wikipedia quote was a professor of divinity. I'm not exactly going to take his word for it. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:12:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
the Theory of Evolution is not a philosophy; it is a scientific theory backed up by hard evidence
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Monkeys to man evolution? Well you are entightled to your beliefs. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:24:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And it light of the current economy and all the current budget shortfalls throughout our government on all levels do we the people really want the federal government funding to the tune of 20.7 million dollars a science fair project promoting a philosophy which is only held by a minority? I say no. |
Wow, way to dodge the point, Bill.| When we have teachers, police and firefighters, among others, being let go do to shortfalls how do we justify... |
...tax exemptions for nonsense like religion that short the government far more than $20.7 million?| ...funding a 20.7 million dollar science fair project, that may be viewed by a few thousand people, and promotes a philosophy which is held by a minority? It's a complete waste of the people's money in a time when we can least afford it. Period. |
Let's just de-fund all of science, shall we? And isn't it a waste to be just displaying a bunch of diamonds and other gemstones in the same museum, when the government could simply sell them off? Think of the fortune that could be generated by auctioning off everything in the National Museum of Art? And the National Postal Museum? Are you kidding me?! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:28:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
That was my beef from the start. If folks want to spend their own cash on a hall then they are certainly free to do so but, if this was publicly funded then that is where I start to have a problem with it. |
No, that's not your beef, since you're laser-focused on a science exhibit while ignoring all the other useless museum exhibits that cost many more millions. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:33:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Monkeys to man evolution? Well you are entightled to your beliefs.
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Yes. This has nothing to do with belief, the evidence has been published widely enough. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:44:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by filthy
the Theory of Evolution is not a philosophy; it is a scientific theory backed up by hard evidence
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Monkeys to man evolution? Well you are entightled to your beliefs.
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The proper term is, "molecules-to-man" evolution, as put forth by the scurrilous AiG.
And Bill, I don't "believe" as you seem to regard belief. After all, some new information might come forth that might change everything -- as the ToE has done to young Earth creationism. So I always leave the door off the latch.
Y'see, nothing is set in stone except Geology.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/28/2010 08:46:32 |
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ooh_child
New Member
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:47:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
OK that does take some of the sting out. It still leaves 5.7 million unaccounted for. If that was funded privately as well then my point has been mooted. That was my beef from the start. If folks want to spend their own cash on a hall then they are certainly free to do so but, if this was publicly funded then that is where I start to have a problem with it.
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Bill, it's obvious you just want to bitch for the sake of bitching, rather than actually finding out the facts before you go off on government spending. I gave you the link to finding out who funded this exhibit pages ago but you didn't even take the time to check it out.
Why do you ignore the evidence presented to you? I tend to agree with some here who believe your faith may be quite fragile. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:58:43 [Permalink]
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So... Bill doesn't like a a science exhibit because it promotes a specific philosophy (and costs money). But, then, doesn't all government spending promote some sort of philosophy? Having publicly funded firefighters promotes the idea that we should save burning buildings (and the people inside) and not let the fire gods get what they want. Having a publicly funded police system promotes the idea that it is more important to lock certain people up rather than having them do what they want to do. Shouldn't ALL government spending be abandoned?
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 09:29:46 [Permalink]
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So you Bill are okay with science as long as it's does not conflict with your worldview. When it does, you demote it to a mere philosophical worldview, equal to your own, no matter how much empirical evidence there is to support the science side of the equation. As though science has an ax to grind where it comes to your views, and relaxes the requirements that make a good theory a good theory.
But again and again, science does not care about or promote either atheism or theism. Science can't work by putting the cart before the horse. What I mean by that is people like Ham and the folks over at the ICR have sworn to a written statement that the bible is a factual account of history and unquestionably true and therefore any science that is at odds with the exact events as told in genesis must be wrong. Bill, you have stated that there are scientists who disagree with "monkey to man" evolution (a term that they came up with for PR reasons). The problem is that those scientists stopped doing science once they signed that statement.
The moment they agreed to a statement of faith that includes only one correct conclusion to whatever science comes up with, what they agreed to is that it does matter where the evidence leads. They are simply not going to be okay with it if it conflicts with their beliefs. Their version of science does not leave the door open for the introduction of any evidence that supports evolution. When it's presented to them, they dismiss it. They are free to put their fingers in their ears and go "la la la la" every time evidence surfaces that supports evolution. Those are your scientists Bill. In other words, there is no controversy among scientists that evolution happens. The overwhelming consensus is that it does, and that consensus is so strong that evolution is also considered a fact. It's only the mechanisms that drive evolution that are considered theory, pretty much. Few theories are as well supported as evolution is. Only a small and vocal minority of scientists (who have ceased being scientists) are complaining. (Most of the signers never were scientists to begin with, but that's beside the point.)
Now, classrooms are simply not able to present the kind of detail that a museum can. So in many cities and states there are science museums where the kids can get up close and personal to exhibits that demonstrate what they have been talking about in the classroom. In the case of evolution, they can see the fossil evidence, see how the work was done, see why science has gone where it has gone and so on. Most museums, including the Smithsonian rely at least in part on donors concerned about education and subscribers and government funding to complete their mission of bringing the most current science to the masses. They play an important roll in education. In the county I live in, there are always school buses outside of the Science Center because, once again, schools can't afford the kind of exhibits that museums offer. The mistake that you Bill keep making is that this is wasted money. It's not at all wasted money if you consider education a priority.
I have already talked about the importance of bringing scientific literacy to our children. And I don’t care what religion you happen to subscribe to or what your belief is about creation and what dedication you have to your particular faith. Hell, how can you even argue against the consensus view if you are ignorant of why that view is the consensus view among those scientists who are actually doing the science? Yes, there are creation stories. But it isn’t the job of a science museum to present any of them. It’s their job to present the science, take it or leave it. There is nothing unfair about it. Keeping your children ignorant about why scientists have come to certain conclusions about whatever the science is, will not serve your children.
Bill. All of your arguments about money and fairness and evolution itself are nothing more than whining about a subject that you don’t happen to agree with. There are many other exhibits at the Smithsonian, some being worked on right now, that you are not complaining about. Bottom line is you homed in on this one because this one is in conflict with your beliefs.
And to that I say tough tities…
Well, I see that while i was writing this, some the same points were made that I'm trying to make now. Darn. I really need to stop writing such long posts...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 09:33:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Robb |
| New vacinnes, drugs and better crop yields have come from the theory of evolution. |
Which theory? |
As I understand it there is only one theory. If you mean micro or macro then probably both but I really do not know.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:21:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ooh_child
Originally posted by Bill scott
OK that does take some of the sting out. It still leaves 5.7 million unaccounted for. If that was funded privately as well then my point has been mooted. That was my beef from the start. If folks want to spend their own cash on a hall then they are certainly free to do so but, if this was publicly funded then that is where I start to have a problem with it.
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Bill, it's obvious you just want to bitch for the sake of bitching, rather than actually finding out the facts before you go off on government spending. I gave you the link to finding out who funded this exhibit pages ago but you didn't even take the time to check it out.
Why do you ignore the evidence presented to you? I tend to agree with some here who believe your faith may be quite fragile.
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For those of you unfamiliar with Bill, he does not open links, he does not engage in honest debate, he changes the topic when you destroy his talking point. He is a professional liar for jesus. Honestly, I think he gets paid by some religitard organization to come in here and shit on the floor from time to time.
Just start a thread titled Al Gore and see how fast he jumps in saying something like "Al Gore has a private jet, therefore global warming is a lie!"
There is no point trying to engage him in a debate. The best we can do is grind up his arguments into little piles of dust, then ridicule him when he doesn't even realize he has nothing left, no evidence, no argument.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:18:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
This is what the current science says according to the beleifs of those who subscribe to the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution. |
Actually, you've got that backwards.| Many believe the current science says something much different. |
Name five living biologists who "believe the current science says something much different" about human origins than the mainstream.| It takes a certain degree of faith no matter what world view or philosophy you subscribe to. |
No, that's just you projecting your own philosophical failures onto others, Bill. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 14:29:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Robb |
| New vacinnes, drugs and better crop yields have come from the theory of evolution. |
Which theory? |
As I understand it there is only one theory. If you mean micro or macro then probably both but I really do not know.
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Really, it's all simply the same, damned old evolution. But many don't agree with that, so I usually ask: How many micros would it take to make a macro? I have yet to receive a satisfactory answer.
Tiktaalik roseae, a fish becoming an amphibian.
Edit: always test your links before you post, rather than go to all that fuss & bother afterward. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/28/2010 14:47:39 |
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Ken Ham: not even a very good liar.
