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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:28:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Ebone4rock |
| t's more like proto-monkey/human evolving to monkey/human |
Regardless it is still philosophy.
| And what do those who believe that current science says something much different believe then? |
That man was created in his current state and is not a evolved from a prototype-monkey, which original evolved form some other life form, which emerged from some primordial warm soup, which just so happen to be there.
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Then why did God create me with that useless appendix that I used to have that almost killed me?
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It is simply your belief that it is useless. You claim not to know what the origin of life is and so the case remains opens for you while more research is done in effort to make this discovery. Yet here you state that sense we have not discovered it's purpose as of yet you will go ahead and deem that it useless and close the case. A lack of constancy in your logic I see. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:29:46 [Permalink]
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And it light of the current economy and all the current budget shortfalls throughout our government on all levels do we the people really want the federal government funding to the tune of 20.7 million dollars a science fair project promoting a philosophy which is only held by a minority? I say no.
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Bill,
First you need to learn the difference between philosophy and science. The Smithsonian is a science museum, not a philosophy museum. Evolution has actual real physical evidence backing it up. Religion only has philosophy which is intangible.
Another fundamental difference of understanding between theists and atheists. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:37:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| The government is free to promote non-religious philosophies (like science) as much as "We the people" want, and it does. |
And it light of the current economy and all the current budget shortfalls throughout our government on all levels do we the people really want the federal government funding to the tune of 20.7 million dollars a science fair project promoting a philosophy which is only held by a minority? I say no.
When we have teachers, police and firefighters, among others, being let go do to shortfalls how do we justify funding a 20.7 million dollar science fair project, that may be viewed by a few thousand people, and promotes a philosophy which is held by a minority? It's a complete waste of the people's money in a time when we can least afford it. Period.
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Bill, read my post above, please.
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| the National Museum of Natural History opened the David H. Koch Hall of Human Origins, after the billionaire polluter donated $15 million. |
OK that does take some of the sting out. It still leaves 5.7 million unaccounted for. If that was funded privately as well then my point has been mooted. That was my beef from the start. If folks want to spend their own cash on a hall then they are certainly free to do so but, if this was publicly funded then that is where I start to have a problem with it. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:40:53 [Permalink]
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| It is simply your belief that it is useless. You claim not to know what the origin of life is and so the case remains opens for you while more research is done in effort to make this discovery. Yet here you state that sense we have not discovered it's purpose as of yet you will go ahead and deem that it useless and close the case. A lack of constancy in your logic I see. |
You are really grasping at straws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix_%28anatomy%29
[Edited to fix link. //Dr. Mabuse] |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 07/30/2010 13:52:39 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:46:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Robb
This is what the current science says how we became who we are today with most of these scientists being honest people doing science. |
Sense I do not know you I would like to ask, just out of curiosity, is it your belief that God created man in his current state or that God created man and then he evolved into his current state?
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I am 100% on board with the Bible's account of creation, that man was made in his current state. The current scientific thought today does not support this. New vacinnes, drugs and better crop yields have come from the theory of evolution. I think Christians should not deny these facts. It does not make it true but there is evidence that evolution may have happened. If you believe in the story of creation as told in the Bible then you must have faith in God, there is little evidence the garden existed but I believe it to be true by faith. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:47:45 [Permalink]
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Hell Bill, the solution's simple: stop fighting pointless wars and then we can fund 'most anything we want.
I can go along with the 5+ mil -- a mere drop in the supertanker these days -- because it is something that will educate the public, some of them, anyway. But alas, those who are intellectually blind will never see it however well it is presented.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/28/2010 06:50:41 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:54:37 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Ebone4rock |
Bill,
First you need to learn the difference between philosophy and science. |
I have.
| The Smithsonian is a science museum, not a philosophy museum. |
The Smithsonian is a science museum who at times promotes philosophy. As I have said if they do this with private funding then so be it. If they publicly fund it then that is where my beef with it begins.
| Evolution has actual real physical evidence backing it up. |
Micro I would say yes. Macro I don't agree.
| Religion only has philosophy which is intangible. |
Yes I would say that that is true of religion.
| Another fundamental difference of understanding between theists and atheists. |
It is simply your belief that your philosophy has a stranglehold on science. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:57:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Robb |
| Frankly Bill, I don't see any problem with this. |
You don't see a problem with our government, who is already trillions in debt, spending 20.7 million dollars of the people's money to fund a science fair project which promotes the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution? We will just have to disagree here then. |
I absolutly have a problem with this kind of money being spent, what I don't have a problem with is the government promoting the current scientific theories of the day.
| Are we Christians for truth or not? |
What does that have to do with a publicly funded science fair project that promotes a philosophy? |
We disagree on science being a philosphy.
| This is what the current science says according to the beleifs of those who subscribe to the philosophy of monkey to man human evolution. Many believe the current science says something much different. |
I agree, but the fact is evolution dominates the current theories today.
| It takes a certain degree of faith no matter what world view or philosophy you subscribe to. |
I agree here to a certain degree but Christians must have more faith than scientists. The fact is there is more scientific evidence for evolution than for Jesus being the son of God.
| Neither helps free worship but towards tyranny. |
Agreed.
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I think we are on the same side but just disagree on science being a philosiphy. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 06:59:34 [Permalink]
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| The Smithsonian is a science museum who at times promotes philosophy. |
I am unfamiliar with a time that the Smithsonian was promoting a specific philosophy. Please enlighten me. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:19:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
| The Smithsonian is a science museum who at times promotes philosophy. |
I am unfamiliar with a time that the Smithsonian was promoting a specific philosophy. Please enlighten me.
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You beat me to it. I too, would be interested in knowing that. |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:26:59 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by filthy |
| Hell Bill, the solution's simple: stop fighting pointless wars and then we can fund 'most anything we want. |
Your preaching to choir here brother. This nation building battle plan is for the birds. Take out Saddam and leave. Take out the taliban and leave. If they come back in 5 years and are giving al Qaeda some more sanctuaries then carpet bomb them again and leave. But trying to install a democratic government in Iraq or Afghanistan is a complete waste of American lives and money and has clearly been demonstrated to be so. Instead BO is ramping up the battle.
| I can go along with the 5+ mil -- a mere drop in the supertanker these days -- |
I see. $5,000,000.00 used to promote your philosophy is just a drop in the bucket but if $25 is used to put up a Merry Christmas sign at a public court house this you blow out your left nut over. Interesting.
| because it is something that will educate the public, some of them, anyway. |
It will educate the public on your philosophy.
| But alas, those who are intellectually blind will never see it however well it is presented. |
So you say. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:29:56 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Robb |
| I am 100% on board with the Bible's account of creation, that man was made in his current state. The current scientific thought today does not support this. |
Good. I was just checking.
| New vacinnes, drugs and better crop yields have come from the theory of evolution. |
Which theory?
| I think Christians should not deny these facts. It does not make it true but there is evidence that evolution may have happened. |
I don't deny evolution. I totally get how when modern dogs moved into colder climates that long haired dogs would have had the advantage and would have survived much better in these climates then shorter haired dogs. The colder it got the fewer short haired dogs you would find. As the long haired dogs breed with other long haired dogs a new breed evolved that was totally adapted to living in a cold whether climate. I get that. Where they loose me is when they start in with the fish to philosopher or monkey to man nonsense. I don't buy that for a second.
| If you believe in the story of creation as told in the Bible then you must have faith in God, there is little evidence the garden existed but I believe it to be true by faith. |
While I would agree my point remains that all world views, philosophies and religions require faith to one degree or another. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:41:06 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Robb |
| The fact is there is more scientific evidence for evolution than for Jesus being the son of God. |
As a pointed out there are many different degrees of evolution that are promoted and accepted. Can you be a little more specific before I address the statement.
| I think we are on the same side but just disagree on science being a philosiphy. |
I don't recall ever saying that science was a philosophy. I do recall saying that a belief in monkeys to man evolution is a philosophy and not science. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:42:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
| The Smithsonian is a science museum who at times promotes philosophy. |
I am unfamiliar with a time that the Smithsonian was promoting a specific philosophy. Please enlighten me.
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For starters they promote the philosophy of monkeys to man evolution. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:42:40 [Permalink]
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Bill, The liar Ham to the contrary, the Theory of Evolution is not a philosophy; it is a scientific theory backed up by hard evidence some of which will be on display in the Hall of Human Origins. Me, I consider most if not all philosophies to be crap made up by people to suit themselves. The ToE, on the other hand, was developed after careful study of the evidence, not a hop dream.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ken Ham: not even a very good liar.
